Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2019

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-22-2019, 06:22 AM
casiotone casiotone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 18
Default Antelope 32 HD delay compensation issues [SOLVED]

Hi
I have three interfaces connected to my PT via HD Native Thunderbolt.
In the first port there are two prism titans with MDIO card (which emulate an avid hd16x16) and an avid HD16x16 and one another port there is an Antelope 32 HD.
I've run some tests using parallel processing with a few projects and there are some serious problem with the hardware delay compensation.

Depending both on the project and on random restarts, one or two of the interfaces do not compensate correctly, and when the original signal is joined with the parallel signal going thru hardware i/o (a simple i/o loopback, no hardware connected) there are phase issues.
(there are no phase issues without the i/o)

Sometimes it’s both Titans (they behave as single unit) or the Antelope that are slight out of sync, always exactly one sample.
When one of them is out of sync, i can compensate with the hardware latency the equivalent of exactly one sample and it works fine… Until i restart and it changes from one interface to another, without any change in the project.

Other times it is the Avid HD16x16 that is out of sync, but it appears not to be a fixed value because if i try to compensate for it with the hardware latency, there is no value that fixes the problem exactly.
It also appears that having certain plugins in other channels that are not routing to this i/o affects the amount of latency of the Avid HD i/o, as if i make them inactive the sound gets progressively more in phase.
Bear in mind that making these plugins inactive does not affect the other two interfaces compensation, and these are not always the same plugins neither in just one single channel.

And sometimes -often- is a combination of two interfaces, with just one single interface being properly compensated.

Anyway, the problem appears even in a project with no plugins whatsoever and just two tracks.

This renders the hardware delay compensation completely useless for parallel processing which was my main reason to get into pro tools anyway.
Also, the fact that is constantly changing from one interface to the other with restarts also makes it impossible to track and compensate in other ways.

Does this happen to anyone else and is there a solution ?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-22-2019, 06:46 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,249
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

First problem here are the different interfaces. Only your Avid HD interface is managed and supported by Avid, the others -- as you mentioned -- only emulate Avid interface and therefore the emulation might or might not be sample accurate. Now that Avid actually charges for DigiLink license, I would assume they are also working with 3rd parties to get the emulation right, but the point remains emulation isn't guaranteed to work sample by sample same way as the Avid box.

Second problem you mentioned was phase problems when using two different interfaces. That kind of comes from the first problem; if the emulation isn't sample accurate, then it is guaranteed to give you such problems.

Third problem, Avid HD being out of sync (how?), needs to be worked out with Avid Support. Create a support case and explain reproduceable steps to bring out your problem with using Avid HD only (no 3rd party interfaces in the mix). If you're right and there is a bug somewhere, plenty of people benefit from this getting fixed.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:00 AM
casiotone casiotone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Thanks for your answer

Well i restarted a couple of times after i posted and the settings changed, including in the AVID HD i/o.

Both the interfaces that are not avid, allegedly are sample accurate and i talked with some people that used both and they confirmed they were sample accurate.

Also i find weird that the combination of the problem with the 3 interfaces keeps changing with the restarts. Sometimes they are all synced (rare), other times it's from 1 to all three that are off. This would suggest the problem is in fact software as nothing is changing in the hardware, or am i missing something?

Already created the support case before posting this, was just wondering if someone is having the same problem (i mean it's quite easy to miss 1 sample offset in a busy mix if your not paralleling something with detailed high end), so if anyone with these interfaces or with combinations of multiple interfaces could run a few loopback tests to check this to see if the problem is with mine or with the software would be nice.

cheers
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:40 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,249
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Alright then..

So how have you clocked the devices? Which one is the clock master?

Don't remember but some 3rd party boxes are not playing well with others unless they get to be the master.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:23 AM
casiotone casiotone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Yeah i was thinking if clocking could affect this, but still find weird that it's exactly one sample - clocking issues should vary maybe?

Main clock is Antelope HD, generating clock to the Titan and Avid. (its the clock with less jitter)
It's Antelope HD - Titan 1 - Titan 2 - Avid HD (the cascading is as suggested in Titan MDIO manual)

My PT is reading the clock from the WC input from Titan one, not the internal from the Antelope HD, but i just tried the internal and there was no change in the behaviour.

In the last two restarts everything was working fine without latency from a few hours now.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:30 AM
casiotone casiotone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Ups, no.
It's not cascaded, i forgot i set it up differently

Antelope HD WC1 - splitter goes to Titan 1 and Titan 2
Antelope HD WC2 - splitter goest to AVID HD and Burl B2
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:12 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,249
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Your problem might be right there -- Avid interfaces should be loop synced together.

If the 3rd party boxes don't have the loop sync you might need Avid Sync HD to loop sync the Avid interface and then distribute clocking to the other boxes. Just guessing though, because the only non-loop-sync box I've ever used myself is the Apogee Rosetta 800 w/XHD card, and even then I only had one.

One sample "mistake" is perfectly obvious if this is the culprit, because if it so happens that the box(es) fail to get the first peak of the clock signal, they would get the next one. That's your one sample mishap right there.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:23 AM
casiotone casiotone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Yeah, i was reading about this now
Both the Titans and the Antelope do support the Loop sync.
The Antelope has a mini clock generator inside that works as a loop sync master and the titans auto-convert to loop sync.

I'm new to PT and still getting my head around this, but do i need to connect the last interface loop sync out to the first interface loop sync in and actually close the loop?

I'm used to WC but the loop sync thing still new to me...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:39 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,249
Default Re: 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Loop sync means just that, you need a sync loop. Starting from your clock master, ending to your clock master.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-22-2019, 12:10 PM
del cosmos del cosmos is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 257
Default 2019.5 Hardware delay compensation not working correctly.

Just for the record...

I’m running 3 HDX cards with 1 8x8 black Avid Interface, one 32x32 Avid Mtrx and 3 Aurora Lynx 16x16 and an Avid Madi interface for my Burl Mothership (48ch.).

I only had to manually write the delay for Avid Mtrx (ironically hehe), but everything works perfectly every time, parallel compression works great!

BTW, the Mtrx and the 3 Auroras are just for hardware inserts.

I don’t know if maybe the system is tuned for HDX and this could be a Native problem.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Protools 12 Delay Compensation Issues jay-clark32 Pro Tools 12 32 08-30-2016 10:05 AM
12.5.2 delay compensation issues dropking Pro Tools 12 3 07-26-2016 02:45 AM
Delay Compensation issues in PT11/12 ggegan Post - Surround - Video 11 07-09-2015 05:54 PM
Issues with Delay Compensation ilee Pro Tools 9 4 12-26-2013 04:25 PM
Delay compensation issues studer80 macOS 2 12-11-2012 06:49 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com