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  #1  
Old 07-25-2012, 04:28 AM
LizS LizS is offline
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Red face PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Has anyone else come across this?

I have opened a session in our PT10HD2 rig that was created in someone else's PT10 rig. Most of the plugs and channels are inactive as there are not enough voices (we're at the max on the playback engine). I tried changing lots of the plugs from native to dsp which freed up some voices but not enough.
The other problem is that the mix is massively peaking and is unlistenable.

So... I changed the engine to 'aggregate i/o' and it reopened with every track and plug active (all native) and no distortion but the sound was coming out of the back of the computer and not through the 192s.

a> how can bypassing the 192s make this a far more efficient and workable session?
b> is it okay to just go native like this without any dsp plugs?
c>I've lost outputs 3 and 4 which I use to a/b with so is there a way to get the sound back through the 192s without encountering all the previous issues?

Bit complicated but can anyone offer some advice?
Many thanks.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2012, 04:40 AM
acmost acmost is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LizS View Post
Has anyone else come across this?

I have opened a session in our PT10HD2 rig that was created in someone else's PT10 rig. Most of the plugs and channels are inactive as there are not enough voices (we're at the max on the playback engine). I tried changing lots of the plugs from native to dsp which freed up some voices but not enough.
The other problem is that the mix is massively peaking and is unlistenable.

So... I changed the engine to 'aggregate i/o' and it reopened with every track and plug active (all native) and no distortion but the sound was coming out of the back of the computer and not through the 192s.

a> how can bypassing the 192s make this a far more efficient and workable session?
b> is it okay to just go native like this without any dsp plugs?
c>I've lost outputs 3 and 4 which I use to a/b with so is there a way to get the sound back through the 192s without encountering all the previous issues?

Bit complicated but can anyone offer some advice?
Many thanks.

It's a PITA but I've had similar things happen. HD will default to the DSP/TDM
version of the plug if there is one in your session. If you don't have enough DSP cards...it won't open. You could go through and make every channel inactive when you open it 'aggregate i/o'...save like that & open it with HD. It'll open with all the channels inactive....make the plugs RTAS and make each channel then active, one by one as you go along and save like that when done. Next time it'll open all RTAS(Native) and you should be able to play it through your 192s...unless there's like 1000 Native plugs and your CPU can't handle it. It's worked every time I've tried it.

Maybe there's an easier way but I definitely went through this when comparing HD TDM to HD Native(no card) on my own system.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2012, 05:41 AM
LizS LizS is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to give that a go. I'll let you know how I do.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:14 AM
LizS LizS is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

That didn't work. But thanks for the suggestion. Not enough voices to run at least a third of it.

There are too many tracks and plugins for the 2 192s we use (90ish tracks, mostly stereo and 17 auxes). The aggregate device setup handles it fine with no distortion and everything enabled.

It makes me wonder why we spent thousands of pounds on the HD system when the PT10 is actually better! The only thing we're missing on the aggregate setup is our extra 2 outputs but I think we'll have to work with it.

Can anyone explain why the distortion is happening in the HD session and not at all in the native session?
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:29 AM
Basstian Basstian is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Probably the Level is too High and you distort the fixed point bus of the hd while you can not really clip the floating point bus in the native mode.

Just a guess.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:34 AM
Kasper Kasper is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Basstian beat me to it.

But to elaborate .... if you're clipping at any point (including plugs) on TDM, that will be passed along to the output (just like distortion in an analog signal chain)

Native can be brought back to unclipping by a bus or master fader at any point. Virtually unlimited headroom (not that it would be advised)

kasper
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:42 AM
Kasper Kasper is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

..... seems to me you should have enough voices though.

Are you at 44.1?

Remove RTAS plugs from your AUX and Master, use TDM.

Keep your RTAS on audio tracks before any TDM, after will use up 1 more voice.

kasper
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2012, 07:56 AM
acmost acmost is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

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..... seems to me you should have enough voices though.

Me too....I've opened bigger 44/48 sessions than that


The number of 192s that you have doesn't make a difference.
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2012, 08:50 AM
LizS LizS is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

Okay so the peaking was because the guys who made the original track put everything but the vocals through an Aux, then through another Aux, then to a master. They did the same with the vocals. Just as you both have said, many of the audio tracks were going into the red and the auxes couldn't cope, whereas in le it attenuates.
So I have started changing the gain structure and grouping smaller numbers of tracks to auxiliaries, which has chilled it all out a lot and there's no distortion.
However, still not enough voices.

The session is at 48. My new auxes have no plugins on at the moment as I just wanted to see if they reduced the levels, which they have. All other plugs are native. So I should change some to DSP and see if that works.

We probably need a 3rd card, but I hate spending more money on HD!

Thanks for the help!
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2012, 09:55 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

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Originally Posted by LizS View Post
We probably need a 3rd card, but I hate spending more money on HD!
Man on the price for the cards now....You could get two more cards.....

If that is the way you are going to go TDM....get a bunch....HD4
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