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  #101  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:59 AM
corp corp is offline
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Question Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

Bob,

Do you use PT's ? If so, are you upgrading?

Also, isn't there other companies that are already 64bit that spent time and money in developing the path and charge a lot less?

What's your connection with Avid?
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  #102  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:09 AM
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M-ManLA M-ManLA is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by Craig F View Post
there also not 20 year old base code
Agreed!!! No more old code
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  #103  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by corp View Post
Bob,

Do you use PT's ? If so, are you upgrading?

Also, isn't there other companies that are already 64bit that spent time and money in developing the path and charge a lot less?

What's your connection with Avid?
Wow.
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  #104  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:23 AM
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Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by mike connelly View Post
If that's the case, why isn't there a version for HDX/AAX that doesn't support RTAS and TDM in 64 bit mode? Terrible strategy, they just released a new plugin format that devs are going to have to support, but it's not 64 bit so when they finally release a 64 bit version those same devs are going to have to go back and update all those plugins AGAIN because they could only do 32 bit versions the first time around. Just release 64 bit pro tools even if the only people using it right away are the third party devs updating for AAX.
Double the production cost for programing two versions of the same program, one to support 32 bit and one that doesn't

And alienate the user base even more with cutting all the tdm hardware out of the equation in one move. Devs are already working on the 64 bit plugs, you think they wait until the last minute?
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  #105  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:44 AM
mike connelly mike connelly is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Double the production cost for programing two versions of the same program, one to support 32 bit and one that doesn't
False, at least on the mac side. Once the code is updated to 64 bit it will compile a 32 bit version. Many apps are 64 bit now on mac and I've never seen a single developer complain that it was double the work to ship 64/32, nor any apps that are 64 bit only.

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
And alienate the user base even more with cutting all the tdm hardware out of the equation in one move.
Read my post, I said no TDM in 64 bit mode. TDM hardware could still be supported, you would just have to run 32 bit mode to use that hardware and plugins. But if TDM is the main thing keeping it from being 64 bit, no reason to not code it in 64 bit but with TDM only available when it's run in 32.


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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Devs are already working on the 64 bit plugs, you think they wait until the last minute?
Are they? They can try and create 64 bit plugs but do they have a beta 64 bit version of PT to test them on? It can't be that useful to try and create code with no way to run and test it. And if there is a beta, aren't they already putting in the effort you're concerned about on that other version of the program?
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  #106  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:51 AM
spenner spenner is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by Dism View Post
The answer is quite simple.

RTAS and TDM.

Both are based on 32 bit architecture and to rewrite both would be a complete waste of time.

Hence... AAX.


AAX is the answer to our prayers. No more drama about which sounds better, whether or not one will open on your system... it becomes all the same. It can also become 64 bit.

PT10 HAD to be 32 bit, so to be able to still run TDM and RTAS since adoption of AAX will take time.

Mark my words...

The sooner we adopt AAX, the sooner we will see a 64 bit Pro Tools, and other features like non-realtime bouncing and freeze tracks.


Trust me.
How did this thread get to 12 pages?

Why are some still talking about VST and AU support?

OTOH, it has been said that this was more of a post release. So, I understand some not wanting to upgrade because PT 10 does not have the features they want, while being concerned about getting hit with higher upgrade prices going from 9 to PT 11 64 bit when it is released.

Maybe if Avid came out with a statement in the near future that the upgrade price for PT 11 64 bit will be significantly lower for those who upgraded to PT 10 then all of this noise would go away. That would provide certainty for those feeling like they're damned if they upgrade now, damned if they do later. Of course Avid doesn't have to. Just thinking out loud.

All of the other rehashed PT 64 bit discussions, like VST support, are pointless now. Just keep reading the OP and wait.
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  #107  
Old 10-24-2011, 11:04 AM
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DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike connelly View Post
If that's the case, why isn't there a version for HDX/AAX that doesn't support RTAS and TDM in 64 bit mode? Terrible strategy, they just released a new plugin format that devs are going to have to support, but it's not 64 bit so when they finally release a 64 bit version those same devs are going to have to go back and update all those plugins AGAIN because they could only do 32 bit versions the first time around. Just release 64 bit pro tools even if the only people using it right away are the third party devs updating for AAX.
AAX can quickly be recompiled for 64 bit, so the development time for 64 bit versions should be minimal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike connelly View Post
And since VST and AU have been around for years, that sounds like whoever designed the HDX card dropped the ball. Not to mention that plenty of users no longer have any interest in DSP cards anyway, if you absolutely have to have a new proprietary plugin format, support the standard VST/AU native formats as well.
AU and VST simply won't run on DSP chips, at least not without a lot of changes to the plug-in SDK or hacking around their limitations. You could say the same of UAD or Powercore - they don't run AU or VST plug-ins for a reason. Not only that, but they do not have support for advanced functionality required for Pro Tools, especially with regard to control surface support. There are several other reasons (no cross-platform support for AU, etc) that determine their usability with Pro Tools.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike connelly View Post
I don't know how it works on the PC side but that's definitely not the case on mac. Devs basically develop the 64 bit version and it compiles 32 at the same time. And PT is supposed to be native now, there's no reason it can't run in 64 bit without TDM plugs and digi hardware. But then I guess the native version would run better than the hardware version, which necessitates continuing the tradition of crippling the native version.
There are far more reasons that just plug-ins - the entire line of hardware must support 64 bit as well as 3rd party devices, hardware, software, drivers, etc. that Pro Tools integrates with. There's a 20+ year codebase that needs to be fully 64 bit for everything to work correctly and there's a lot of interdependencies that need to be worked out in parallel.

The comparison to other DAWs being 64 bit already always leaves out the fact that they don't have nearly the number of hardware, software and 3rd party device support that Pro Tools has. They don't have the backwards compatibility, they have different audio engines, they don't have the same video software or hardware support, network storage, etc - these all take a lot of development time, testing, etc. They don't have anywhere near the installed user base in radio, television and film and those users have different needs than your home studio owner. You said it yourself (which I highlighted in bold) - not everyone needs DSP, but it's still a factor in our development and, when determining how to maximize development costs - especially in a weak economy, all of these things are major factors.
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  #108  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:16 PM
kaiserpathos kaiserpathos is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by spenner View Post

Maybe if Avid came out with a statement in the near future that the upgrade price for PT 11 64 bit will be significantly lower for those who upgraded to PT 10 then all of this noise would go away.
THIS! DING DING DING!

Yep, all the "PT9 was just out....it's too expensive for x features" b*tching is about gone the INSTANT Avid makes a statement about PT11 and pricing discounts.

But here's why it likely can't happen: if the development costs aren't off-set by a decent volume in HDX hardware sales/refreshes in the next few quarters, there is NO incentive to lower PT10 stand-alone upgrade-pricing, or even keep them in the PT10 price range next year (assuming next year IS when PT11 comes....plug-in manufacture adoption of AAX is key to that, I imagine). Sure, there will be a discount of some kind, but a lot of people just fear it will be pretty high given PT11's ambitious changes coming. But yes, a statement about PT11 pricing from Avid would stop the b*tching & boost PT10 buy-in from small shops/hobbyist niche areas, something they don't really need this round.

In fact, there's every incentive in PT11 to RAISE the Upgrade price to around $400, and straight "software only" price in the $799 neighborhood, if hardware sales are lackluster the next few quarters. They have to make money, and the hobbyist/home-studio community's only hope will be massive buy-in from the pro shops. Their revenue likely subsidizes PT stand-alone pricing, to some degree.
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  #109  
Old 10-24-2011, 12:29 PM
mike connelly mike connelly is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
There are far more reasons that just plug-ins - the entire line of hardware must support 64 bit as well as 3rd party devices, hardware, software, drivers, etc. that Pro Tools integrates with. There's a 20+ year codebase that needs to be fully 64 bit for everything to work correctly and there's a lot of interdependencies that need to be worked out in parallel.
But when it goes 64 bit it will be dumping the old plugin format as well as much of the hardware. And now PT runs natively, you can run it without any of that hardware. Until there is a version that supports everything that will ultimately be supported, why not release an interim 64 bit version that can doesn't have that full support for all that hardware but is useful to all the users who are hardware independent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
The comparison to other DAWs being 64 bit already always leaves out the fact that they don't have nearly the number of hardware, software and 3rd party device support that Pro Tools has.
But if we're talking about what support in the 64 bit version, isn't that list of hardware a lot shorter? And it will exclude some digi hardware that will still work fine with all the other audio apps - they run fine with any hardware that has drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt View Post
not everyone needs DSP, but it's still a factor in our development and, when determining how to maximize development costs - especially in a weak economy, all of these things are major factors.
So you're holding back the native version so the guys who spent the most don't get upset. That's your perogative, but that's a marketing excuse, not a reason based on technology.
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  #110  
Old 10-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Violet Violet is offline
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Default Re: Why PT10 is not 64 bit... let's get this over with ;)

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Originally Posted by lowthert View Post
Check out the overview vid.

This would cost me the same as my 10 upgrade...

It looks great!

http://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar/X1-Producer/

Umm well this will cost you half of the update and you will get 64bit...freeze tracks...unlimited instrument tracks.

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products...hy_cubase.html

Heck Reaper has all these things and its like 60 bucks.

Avid do you not know your competition? Your way over pricing yourselfs and not giving us what has been out for years now.

I want 5 minutes alone with Avids board of directors, in a sound proof room... my voice would be so hoarse.

Heck there is more talk on here about PT11 than PT10...why? PT11 is all that anyone cares about, because it turns out PT10 is garbage.

I've worked with Pro Tools a long time and work very efficiently in it, this is the only reason I stay with it. Avid knows this about most of its customers and that is why it has a $1000 price tag for crap. Because we care more about stability than minimal features attached with PT10. When PT14 comes out with 64(It won't be 11 or 12 or 13, they will keep selling us crap) then the price will be astronomical. It won' just be 299 for PT and $1000 for HD.

Avid is screwing all of us.

Give me unlimited instrument tracks...how hard is it??? Stop suppressing just for the sake of suppressing. No other DAW does this.

And STOP charging me for what I've already paid for. You put a fader on a region and give me the ability to load to soundcloud and ask for a GRAND? Get real.
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