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  #1  
Old 12-31-2008, 12:57 PM
kickinthedoors kickinthedoors is offline
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Default AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

OK, imagine the scene, you've been working flat out for 12 months and your project is ready. It's been tight and there are things you would have like to have got right, but you ran out of time. Your boss wanted it now, your team wanted it now, because your customers wanted it now.

So you unveil it ready for the praise for you year of hard work - what hits you next is far from what you hoped for. Rather than thanks, you get a list of things you could have done differently, Mary hates the new colour, why didn't you make it pink? Some of the team are so keen to get going they don't bother to read your instructions and soon your getting called in the evenings and your going to be working the weekends to get it sorted. It's a this moment you wonder if it was really worth it.

Sound familiar?

If it doesn't then spend an hour reading through the posts in the Digi DUC. They range from 'confused of Boston' who just didn't bother reading the instructions, 'annoyed of London' (Brits never get angry,it's just not British) who can't make his controller keyboard from Ebay work, to 'F***kin livid' of Florida who keeps getting crashes and 'if you don't sort my problem out Digi you'll be out of a job!' Seldom do you see a 'thanks guys for all your hard work.'

Now I appreciate we all like to have things work out the box, or get the download we were hoping to have now, yesterday. But just for a moment consider the math. Software is historically problematic to engineer to exacting standards, bearing in mind the almost limitless combinations of hardware and other software out there. Due diligence means that testing takes place, beta testers run for months and then out it comes. What amazes me is not that it crashes, but that it works!

Selective memory loss doesn't help either in these situations, suddenly we claim that all my other software works without issue. I run both Macs and PCs and I'm yet to have a piece of software that worked flat out from day one - Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, et al! Or do these companies release updates, patches and fixes because they are bored?

I don't work for Digidesign or AIR for that matter, but I just wonder if a resolution for 2009 might just be a little more gratitude and a little more patience - after all, anger and stress do nothing for the creative process.

Happy New Year from the AIR User Blog.
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2008, 12:58 PM
kickinthedoors kickinthedoors is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. Welcome to the real world. You get paid the big bucks to perform well, not just perform.
Ok so you design some decent software, what do you want a pat on the back, a star? Give me a break man, what is this 5th grade?

Software is not cheap so when you pay a lot of money you expect to get what you paid for. Your post sounds like one big excuse for all of AIR's let downs. Your attitude is not constructive and its a shame that it would be directed at the people who BUY the products, a pure shame.
People at the DUC are pissed off because AIR is constantly not meeting expectations. We are no longer in 1995, consumers are computer savy, competition is fierce and people know what to expect.
I read a thread on DUC in which a user was pissed off because there was no "next patch" button in Structure (http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=234625). Now if I paid $500 dollars for a sampler that didn't have that I think I'd have every right to be that pissed, if not more. Especially when the direct competition (halion, esx24 & kontakt) all have the feature.
The bottom line, we don't need your excuses. AIR is associated with Pro Tools, the industry standard. Users expect the absolute best from them, if that's not met then they have every right to complain, if features aren't there it needs to be said. If action is not happening fast enough they need to make noise so it does.

You are dealing with professionals here. This is how we feed our families, how we secure our futures, how we pay college tuitions. We don't need products that make that hard on us. So the next time you choose to disrespect customers with that nonsense you posted think about AIR owning up to their responsibility as a software manufacturer and own up to your faults so we can fix things and makes things better. And I know this wasn't posted by AIR directly but its on the front page of the blog as if they were happy someone was saying it, its a damn shame. Stop whining and leave your excuses at home.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2008, 01:16 PM
wwittman wwittman is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

How often does your computer crash?

not THAT often? but sometimes?
freeze up? refuse to respond?

now imagine that your car or airplane or even toaster worked no more reliably than that.

consumers have a right to expect the product they pay for to WORK.
not only sometimes, or sort of.
and when it doesn't they have a right to explain.

my "thank you' is my credit card
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2008, 02:53 PM
tomhartman tomhartman is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
How often does your computer crash?

not THAT often? but sometimes?
freeze up? refuse to respond?

now imagine that your car or airplane or even toaster worked no more reliably than that.

consumers have a right to expect the product they pay for to WORK.
not only sometimes, or sort of.
and when it doesn't they have a right to explain.

my "thank you' is my credit card
Fortunately, cars are made by a single manufacturer, and problems can be easily diagnosed. With constant Apple updates, PT updates, and AIR updates, welcome the wonderful world of software. Someone mentioned KONTAKT, and wasn't a bit pissed off that NI still can't figure out why their software has been buggy with Leopard for several System updates now. And yet still we have paid for it.

TH
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2008, 03:48 PM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

The AIR Blog is independently run and has no affiliation with either Digi or AIR. It receives no funding from them and receives no 'sweetners' for the work carried out by them. We too have paid for every product.

The article was written by supporters of both Digi and AIR. You do not have to visit it, although hundreds do daily and the response to the work done by the blog has been overwhelmingly positive from around he world. I'm also puzzled as to why you didn't choose to have your 'right to reply' on the AIR Blog by using the comments option?

You have every right to your view, and sadly, your response reinforces the blog article. Even more so your response clearly demonstrates you did not read it carefully, at no point does it suggest that Digi or AIR can make excuses, what it does ask for is nothing more than a little patience and perspective, even in the most trying of circumstances. On the whole the DUC is a community of positive people, who come looking for answers and are often directed to those answers, either by Digi to DUC members. You talk about a lack of support - Digi Tech Support were posting solutions on every day during the Christmas break. But there are some who come just to get something off their chest, they don't want solutions and don't always take the advice given.

We too make our living using these tools and so know how important it is for them to work. The more established users of Pro Tools know how critical it is to protect their income stream and so will not normally make a system change unless it is proven to be as solid as possible, early adopters of any software will usually have to pay a small price for the teething issues associated with them. Most pro users are often several versions back on their mission critical software because it is rock solid.

Saying that, early indications are showing that over 90% of PT8 adopters are loving it. No-one thinks Digi or AIR are perfect, of course there are early issues, having over 20 years experience of both hardware and software audio and music solutions, there is no such thing as a perfect product, so I suppose they are on parity with the rest of the pro-audio industry.

Lastly, the blog was started to support the users of AIR products and felt they had nowhere to go with their issues etc. We are talking with AIR and Digi to get a good flow of info and updates to the community. This was our way of trying to help where we saw a problem, as my signature says 'it only takes a mouth to criticize' - I wonder what solutions you are offering to the Digi community? I suppose if you are passionate about your cause you could always start your own anti-air/digi blog and see the masses flock to it.
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Last edited by RussUK; 12-31-2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: spelling and clarification
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2008, 04:32 PM
peppertree peppertree is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

A complaint is a gift.

Criticizing people who are complaining does NOT help digidesign. Pointing out factual errors, operator errors, etc. does help digidesign. However operator error does not leave digidesign scot-free: the software most likely could have been made more foolproof and self-explanatory.

Don't worry about the feelings of an experienced software engineer/designer. That people are angry with their mistakes just shows the passion they have for their successes. And yes, thank you from a credit card is ultimately the only one that counts.

People who have appointed themselves defenders of digidesign on this forum and who personally attack critics of the company and its products are actually making it harder for the company and its staff to understand what they are doing wrong. They should have this explained to them by the staff: your "defense" is not helpful and is not wanted.
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  #7  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:01 PM
Heck Heck is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppertree View Post
A complaint is a gift.

Criticizing people who are complaining does NOT help digidesign. Pointing out factual errors, operator errors, etc. does help digidesign. However operator error does not leave digidesign scot-free: the software most likely could have been made more foolproof and self-explanatory.

Don't worry about the feelings of an experienced software engineer/designer. That people are angry with their mistakes just shows the passion they have for their successes. And yes, thank you from a credit card is ultimately the only one that counts.

People who have appointed themselves defenders of digidesign on this forum and who personally attack critics of the company and its products are actually making it harder for the company and its staff to understand what they are doing wrong. They should have this explained to them by the staff: your "defense" is not helpful and is not wanted.
Now that's perspective. Very smart reply, glad to see someone understands.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:03 PM
flommer flommer is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppertree View Post
A complaint is a gift.

Criticizing people who are complaining does NOT help digidesign. Pointing out factual errors, operator errors, etc. does help digidesign. However operator error does not leave digidesign scot-free: the software most likely could have been made more foolproof and self-explanatory.

Don't worry about the feelings of an experienced software engineer/designer. That people are angry with their mistakes just shows the passion they have for their successes. And yes, thank you from a credit card is ultimately the only one that counts.

People who have appointed themselves defenders of digidesign on this forum and who personally attack critics of the company and its products are actually making it harder for the company and its staff to understand what they are doing wrong. They should have this explained to them by the staff: your "defense" is not helpful and is not wanted.
Lets face it... Complainers fall into a variety of categories and not all of those categories would be considered useful to Digi (or any other mfgr). I don't think you need to defend Digi from the ones who are telling the complainers to chill out. Digi can take care of themselves and when the administrators of this forum appreciate (or don't appreciate) certain posts, they quite often let their feelings be known.

When people spout off and then don't fully describe their problem then all that's happening is muddier water, for example.. Or people who post with a complaint , are given suggestions and never post back with their outcome. Or people who obviously have some kind of a chip on their shoulder due to some other, possibly unrelated issue and tend to pile on in these threads.

And to compare a personal computer and the software installed on it to cars, airplanes, or toasters is a completely flawed analogy. A computer (it's and software) is by nature an open format where the designers do not know what demands are going to be placed on it. They can react, but that takes time.. Especially when those designers want to do a good job with QA. (like when Digi takes 6 months to qualify a new OS. Remember all the bitching then?)

Airplanes, cars and toasters, on the other hand, are pretty much closed systems where the designers actually spell out what limits should not be passed.

And another funny thing.. Software and computers are actually pretty cheap considering what the alternatives are. Or the fact that without these imperfect machines many, many things are simply impossible. It is a fact of life in this day and age that we need computers and that they are not perfect (or even close to it). That is something you simply need to come to terms with.. Death and taxes kind of thing...

I guess my point is to keep things on the constructive side of things whenever possible, no matter how much you want to throw your computer out the window.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2008, 07:00 PM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

I started a long response and then just deleted the whole thing. No one "wins" in these kinds of threads. Some people will be constructive and some won't and I don't know if that's ever going to change.

I think Digi have done a good job on this release - especially considering the magnitude of the changes implemented. Did they deploy it well....uh, no, they could have done it better. Is it working perfectly? No, of course not. Is it working well enough to use in a pro situation? You bet! I'm already doing that.

So, I'm gonna go play with some of the new AIR plugins and chill...Happy New Year!
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2008, 11:29 PM
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Avid Avid is offline
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Default Re: AIR Disrespects Pro Tools Customers

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinthedoors View Post
I read a thread on DUC in which a user was pissed off because there was no "next patch" button in Structure (http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=234625).
Which was posted from your IP location under the user name Heck. Personally, I would take your points a bit more seriously if you were not playing identity games, posing as more than one user to make those points.
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