Print track and Mastering

[bonzerboy]

I have been experimenting with a Template. On the master buss out it has a limiter then it prints to a print track. Can you master the print track after it went thru a limiter or would you remove the limiter and lower your out put?

[JFreak]

This question to me tells that you need to learn quite a bit before you call your final tracks a "master". But long story short, only real no-no is touching a track that has noise-shaping dither applied

[albee1952]

When you say "can you master", do you mean YOU, or do you mean a mastering engineer? There are differing opinions on this, so this is only my opinion I really don't like to master. I don't care how many tools I have to do it, or how many times I've done it. None of that makes me a "mastering engineer"(which I feel has its own skill/art that is not the same as recording or mixing). If someone else will master the project, I do nothing on the master bus other than my FabFilter ProQ2 doing a hi-pass around 20Hz(its in place mostly so I can see the spectrum display and clipping).


I often will listen with some master "help", but mainly that's either to get an idea what will happen(will it affect the mix in a big way) and I will often do "quick&dirty" mastering so a client can listen to a mix that hits close to "commercial" volume.


Back to the original question, I would not apply limiting if mastering will be done later. If you have a limiter setting that gives you something you really like, print 2 versions, 1 with nothing, and 1 with the limiting as a reference for the ME

[bonzerboy]

not talking about dither or noise shaping

[bonzerboy]

That makes sense to bounce 2. I have heard 2 different things. If you are going to send out for a Master dont but a limiter. Then I also heard yes you can use a limiter and then master the limited track. I know you can do anything but I was trying to get the i guess proper way.

[wwittman]

Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.

If it’s just there to make it LOUDER, then send it to mastering without it and let the mastering process make it as loud as it needs to be.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.

In the words of Darryl Hall...."I can't go for that" This is why I suggested 2 bounces(so the limited bounce serves as a reference for the ME). Reason #1-you may squash more than needed and the ME cannot undo too much limiting or compression. #2-the ME might have a limiter that will do what you want, but do it a lot better than the tools you have. #3-(and probably the most important reason to use an ME), its always good to have some fresh ears listen to the final without prejudice. I don't care who you are or how good you are, once you've heard a song 150 times, its really tough to be objective

[Bookerv12]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.

If it’s just there to make it LOUDER, then send it to mastering without it and let the mastering process make it as loud as it needs to be.

What William is asking is something you have to give serious thought to.
The only problem is, mixing into a limiter does make the track louder...and 9 times out of 10, you will pick it as the better version only because it is louder...because your brain gets fooled into that rather easily.
If you're not knowledgeable about mastering, (and why would you want to be?)
I would send the tracks to someone else who is....They will invariably have better equipment and knowledge to make things louder.

Also...
When you say you have a limiter on a Master, and print to a track, do you mean you are bussing everything to an Aux and bussing that Aux to a print track?
There is a huge difference.

Let us know

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by bonzerboy

I have been experimenting with a Template. On the master buss out it has a limiter then it prints to a print track. Can you master the print track after it went thru a limiter or would you remove the limiter and lower your out put?

Limiter OFF for pre-master; you must leave some headroom for the mastering engineer to do their job; if you send them a pre-crushed mix they need to then turn your mix down so there's headroom for mastering processes (SR convert, eq, dynamics) to run without clipping.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Rich Breen

Limiter OFF for pre-master; you must leave some headroom for the mastering engineer to do their job; if you send them a pre-crushed mix they need to then turn your mix down so there's headroom for mastering processes (SR convert, eq, dynamics) to run without clipping.

^^ this.

if your highest peaks are -6dBFS you are only sacrificing 1 bit, and again if the peaks are -12dBFS your sacrifice is 2 bits out of 24 -- and the best of the best DA converters have about 124dB dynamics which means you can easily "sacrifice" 20 dB below FS without actually losing anything.

Just something to think about. Your system does have a volume control, doesn't it? If it does, then no reason to try hitting red.