Sound Treating Secrets

[Zap Launcher]

Hi I am wondering if anyone knows anything about general sound treating of a room... a basement in particular, for vocals, electric guitar amps, and drums.

I want to build some panels to put on the walls, or possibly spaced from the walls, that will ged rid of some reverberation, but still maintain a bit of a room resonance.

It is a long room, 20feet x 12 feet long. I am having a 12X12 area of the room closed off and sealed with MDF wood.

I know that studio foam does not do enough. I am thinking of constructing my own panels, on the walls and also in the corners so that the room will have 8 sides.

I will make the panels with wood frames and put in some roxul sound absorbing insulating material (hopefully very sound absorbing)... and there are also these puzzle floor tiles made out of a very dense foam that i can also use. but once these panels are finished, i will wrap some sort of fabric around them.... (any suggestions as to better materials, and fabrics?) And after they are made, should I put those studio pyramid foams from auralex behind or in front of the panels i constructed? And does anyone know if there at sort of sound absorbing material works best that can be purchased from a hardware store? Any other materials i can use that are much better? What about under the rug foam sheets?

And finally, there is a company who has foam who can make it in the shape of pyramids for me, they say it is like auralex... very similar they say. But it is much more cheaper costing... so lets just assume the worst and lets say its not sound-specific foam... will it at least absorb something if it is somewhat dense enough? I mean, something is better than nothing right?

And I am thinking of constructing uneven plastic triangle, shapes to adhere to the ceiling, not for absorbsion but for dispersion.... or maybe plastic egg cartins to scatter the sound unevenly a little bit.

Any input would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[erthquake]

First off, use any other dimension except 12'x12' for the closed off part of the room. The room resonances will wreak havoc. Keep one dimension at 12' and use another dimension that doesn't have a common factor with 12', such as 11', 13', or 17'. Think about building your own bass traps/acoustic absorbers out of glass fiberboard such as OwensCorning 703 (good) or 705 (better). The foam will be pretty much useless in comparison with regards to getting rid of resonances. Use RC Channel to mount the drywall to studs if you need to soundproof. It works wonders.

[albee1952]

Search (google) for articles by John Slayer and Ethan Whiner. Also google "bass traps" and don't bother with egg crates. They are nothing more than a fire hazard. Good advice above too. Foam products do very little below 1K and your room will have most of its problems in the bottom 2 octaves. A little foam is okay to help avoid high frequency reflections and foambymail.com has products that look and act like Auralex at half the price.

[IntelDoc]

www.readyacoustics.com

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

[Zap Launcher]

Originally Posted by albee1952

don't bother with egg crates. They are nothing more than a fire hazard.

I was not talking about those egg crates... i know they dont absorb... i am talking about plastic ones which can deflect and scatter. only for the ceiling since i am not allowed to put holes in the ceiling where i am, only on the walls. so adhesive with those would be perfect. (or other plastic items which are irregularly shaped.

Foam products do very little below 1K and your room will have most of its problems in the bottom 2 octaves. A little foam is okay to help avoid high frequency reflections and foambymail.com has products that look and act like Auralex at half the price.

That company is the one i was asking about... actually, they sell their stuff for 1/4th of the price of auralex.

[albee1952]

Not THOSE egg crates! That's a horse of a different color(makes sense now). The foambymail is indeed a lot less money and I have some right next to Auralex and no one can tell the difference. Its funny when the package arrives on your porch. The "box" looks like cardboard wrapped around a deformed beachball. You cut the tape off it and it kind of blows up as they squash the foam for shipping. You let it sit unwrapped for a day before you hang it. How high is the ceiling? Not sure I would use MDF but if tis cheap, it will be interesting to hear how it all works for you. I went with double walls with each face done with double 5/8" drywall(glued and screwed) with all joints staggered. For insulation, mineral wool(aka rock wool) is much better than fiberglass and costs almost the same. Not sure if this will help but here's a link to photos of my contruction project. Good luck with yours.
http://picasaweb.google.com/albro1952/NewStudio#

[Zap Launcher]

Originally Posted by IntelDoc

www.readyacoustics.com

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

Wow, thanks. THose bags will be perfect.... but i am concerned about those screws. You see I am now instead having a custom pentagon vocal booth built for me as a family contact is assisting... and i am not sure i want to screw those to the wall... could I use something else like industrial strength velcro? or anything else?

As for the vocal booth, i am having one built that will maybe imitate the one at the following link: http://www.vocalbooth.com/products/diamondseries.html

I am not sure if i should make it a perfect pentagon of if i should make one of the corners as 90 Degrees like the one at this website.

is it better to have at least one parrallel secton for better resonance or is it better to eliminate parrallel areas including the ceiling (where i thought of having 5 evenly shaped triangles rising up another 2 feet and converging to a central point like a temple.

you see i need that very dark resonance like heard on fear factory and pantera guitars... i need it tight yet dark ly resonating with i assume less than 100% coverage for absorbtion. I guess I will have to hir an acoustician to handle the caluculations (unless any one is free to give out any proper ways of calculating for proper sound).

But as a result, is foam better for the absorbtion yet tight dark, resonance... or is the panels better? with diffusors on the ceiling maybe? or is it possible to get good sound by combining auralex foams and panels? and finally, owens corning 703 or 705?

Thanks All.

[Zap Launcher]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Not THOSE egg crates! That's a horse of a different color(makes sense now).

I have decided on Auralex T-Fusors instead, unless someone knows of something more aesthetically pleasing for the ceiling of a pentagon (since those t-fusors are square.

Its funny when the package arrives on your porch. The "box" looks like cardboard wrapped around a deformed beachball. You cut the tape off it and it kind of blows up as they squash the foam for shipping. You let it sit unwrapped for a day before you hang it.

Oh ok thanks... in that case, I should go pick it up myself since i am near michigan in ontario.... i wouldnt like the thought of it having been squished like that.

You mention it looking like auralex? Does it have any brand name on it? does auralex have its name on it?

A partner of an acoustician told me not to get foam, and that it doesnt do much absorbing, maybe a bit of diffusing... does he say this to make me give them the business of designing my room with panels they think i should use? Does anyone know how think 4 inch auralex foam pyramids compare to acoustic panels that have rigid fiberglass.

How high is the ceiling? Not sure I would use MDF but if tis cheap, it will be interesting to hear how it all works for you. I went with double walls with each face done with double 5/8" drywall(glued and screwed) with all joints staggered.

What do one mean by joints staggered?

I have decided on a booth instead... imitating the pentagons at www.vocalbooth.com so about a 7 foot ceiling.

For insulation, mineral wool(aka rock wool) is much better than fiberglass and costs almost the same.

Are you talking about owens corning? which is better 703 or 705?

Not sure if this will help but here's a link to photos of my contruction project. Good luck with yours.
http://picasaweb.google.com/albro1952/NewStudio#

I see you use an interesting selection of mic on a cab? may i ask why u chose that one? I need one with a good bright sound, a spike in the 4 to 6 k range.... to get that sort of static X or pantera sound jet engine quality sound harmonics. Is it ok to use an Aphex 207 D preamp because i cant tell the difference between that or a UA? or do i need a super expensive pre to get the overtones of pantera.

[albee1952]

So many questions...
The staggered joints refers to the drywall. the seams of the first layer are not all in the same place as the seams for the second layer. I installed the first layer horizontally and the second layer was installed vertically. The first layer joints were sealed with silicon, as were all seams and corners. Any where air can get thru, sound can get thru too so keep that in mind when you build.

Foam doesn't help much below 500Hz but can help with higher frequencies which can cause phasing effects on vocals. 90 degree corners are NOT desired(you saw the corners in my control room). Unfortunately, the wall/ceiling "corner" is a 90 degree corner.

Mineral wool is better than regular fiberglass. Not sure on the rigid 703/705 stuff but that has its uses too.

If you want the hyped upper mids, maybe the old SM57 is right for you. I prefer a more honest recreation of the actual sound out of the cab so I use the SM7(in the photo) or a ribbon(Cascade DR2 or Fat Head II) which all have more warmth and balance over a 57(just my opinion here).

The squashed foam came back to perfect form in 24 hours or so and caused no harm. No identifying logo on any of the foam from either foambymail or Auralex.

Achieving the ultimate guitar tone is a personal quest for each person. 2 people with the exact same setup can sound very different so experimentation is the order of the day. For mic preamps, I would look to the "character" type like API and NEVE (or NEVE clones).

[Zap Launcher]

Originally Posted by albee1952

So many questions...


90 degree corners are NOT desired(you saw the corners in my control room). Unfortunately, the wall/ceiling "corner" is a 90 degree corner.

So big fat bass traps in these corners are not a final solution?

The squashed foam came back to perfect form in 24 hours or so and caused no harm. No identifying logo on any of the foam from either foambymail or Auralex.

How much of that can i fit into the trunk of my sedan and back seats? I live 4 hours away from the foam factory, and i hope it is worth the gas.

I wonder what customs canada will say at the border when i come with a car stuffed full of sponges and mentioning that it was a gift... or i could say a friend got rid of his studio and gave me it all. Cause i am not paying their stupid taxes.

And finally, is anyone aware of any diffusors like the auralex t-fusors that i can put on the ceiling? the problem with the t-fusors is they are 6 inches deep and the booth can be 6foot 6 inches tall max on the interior since it will be 7 foot tall on the exterior.