Eleven Rack or what?

[Stig Eliassen]

In the studio we use Marshall, Vox and Fender amps, and also the Eleven plugin and various stomp boxes and pedals. Happy with that setup. Now, it's been a long time since I played guitar live, but when I did, I used a Line6 Pod XT Pro.
I've recently tested the Line6 unit, since I have some live gigs on the horizon, but it doesn't sound good to me at all. I must be getting picky.

How do you like 11R? The demoes I've heard tell me that it would be a solid step up from Line6, but what do you guys and girls think?

Also, I really hate the pedal board that I have for the XT. The buttons make the loudest, mechanical noise I've ever heard, and it's pretty much useless for intimate and small live gigs. Any recommendations in that area?

Thanks.

[bredo]

IMO nothing from Line6 is close to the Eleven rack (except maybe the tube amp head DT25).

From an engineer standpoint, nothing beats the Eleven Rack when it comes to get great basic sounds together. Effect wise only AxeFX beats it, but that doesn't matter for me as an engineer.

As a sidenote, I have so many disapointed guitarists faces when stripping their "best sounding guitar sound ever over the top FX filled in stereo" guitar sound down to basic mono only when recording (except for some clean sounds).
It may well work well live, but in the studio it will only reduce my options when its time for mixing. But try to tell them, he he

If I were a live guitarist, maybe the AxeFX would suit my needs better. Sound wise nothing from Line6's POD series is as good as the Eleven rack. But switching presets and effects with their dedicated pedalboards may be more convenient in a live situation.

At last: Hallo fra Oslo.

[Jay_uk]

Never a better time to get the 11r
Pro tools 9 and a free upgrade to 10
Its user friendly... embeds rig settings.
see here..
http://community.avid.com/blogs/avid...even-rack.aspx

also check the vids
http://www.avid.com/US/products/Eleven-Rack_2

[Stig Eliassen]

Thanks for your time, guys.

Hallo, Bredo.

I don't need "over-the-moon" FX nearly as much as good amp and cabinet emulations. It has to sound good bone dry and upfront. Of course, I use FX, but that's secondary IMO.

I let people use their FX in the studio if they wish, but then I prefer to know the arrangement and the song a little bit. There's usually a transition here and there that forces me to record dry. Unless we split the signal, which we usually do anyway.

I truly hate the Line6 pedalboard. If I buy 11R, I need to get something substantially more quiet.

Jay, thanks for the links - I'll definitely check'em out.

[bredo]

Of course I let people use their own effects, if its appropriate for the song and arrangement, and if effects are a part of/reason for the song-idea. But for basic rhythm tracks I try to avoid as many FX's as possible .

But seriously, I've tried out most effects/modellers since the Zoom 9000/9002 around 1990. Rocktron were very good for its time (two Chameleons here from ca. 1995). Vox Tonelab, Behringer xxx, Boss's, Roland's + never stuff.
Nothing has been more joyful, and good sounding than my two Eleven racks. After 15 years of tweaking the Rocktron Chameleons sounds pretty good through the poweramp section of my Carvin Legacy .

But again, I'm more an engineer than a live guitarist.

Anyway, I hope you get to test an Eleven Rack out.

PS. Holder du til i Oslo området? (in Norwegian).

[AvidEditor]

Originally Posted by PT Lover

In the studio we use Marshall, Vox and Fender amps, and also the Eleven plugin and various stomp boxes and pedals. Happy with that setup. Now, it's been a long time since I played guitar live, but when I did, I used a Line6 Pod XT Pro.
I've recently tested the Line6 unit, since I have some live gigs on the horizon, but it doesn't sound good to me at all. I must be getting picky.

How do you like 11R? The demoes I've heard tell me that it would be a solid step up from Line6, but what do you guys and girls think?

Also, I really hate the pedal board that I have for the XT. The buttons make the loudest, mechanical noise I've ever heard, and it's pretty much useless for intimate and small live gigs. Any recommendations in that area?

Thanks.

Although it doesn't get as much love here as I'd expect, if all you want is having foot control of switching from rig to rig, the Rocktron Midi Mate in Bank Mode is a great solution. The Midi Mate has an eight character Alpha-Numeric LED that you must preset yourself (the Midi Mate will not automatically display the name of your rig, you must manually set the name) but in Bank Mode you have up to 128 presets.

If a person needed the ability to control individual effects within a rig, in Control Mode the Midi Mate can be programmed to control five separate effects - at least this is my understanding - I don't have personal experience in Control Mode. Having control of five separate effects for some people may be enough - if someone needed the ability to control more than five effects they could have a look at the Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro.

The new Rocktron Midi Raider looks like a great product - more LED characters and metal buttons. If I didn't already own a Midi Mate I'd buy the Midi Raider. Bottom line, if all that's needed is the ability to switch up and down between rigs the Midi Mate is fine.

[Stig Eliassen]

Thanks for your insight, Bredo.

I've tried a lot of stuff too. 4-5 years ago I ended up with the Pod XT, but now I'd like to get rid of it. It just doesn't cut it nowadays. I'm intrigued by 11R, for sure.

PS: Holder til i nordland, 12 mil sør for Bodø.

[Stig Eliassen]

Originally Posted by AvidEditor

Although it doesn't get as much love here as I'd expect, if all you want is having foot control of switching from rig to rig, the Rocktron Midi Mate in Bank Mode is a great solution. The Midi Mate has an eight character Alpha-Numeric LED that you must preset yourself (the Midi Mate will not automatically display the name of your rig, you must manually set the name) but in Bank Mode you have up to 128 presets.

If a person needed the ability to control individual effects within a rig, in Control Mode the Midi Mate can be programmed to control five separate effects - at least this is my understanding - I don't have personal experience in Control Mode. Having control of five separate effects for some people may be enough - if someone needed the ability to control more than five effects they could have a look at the Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro.

The new Rocktron Midi Raider looks like a great product - more LED characters and metal buttons. If I didn't already own a Midi Mate I'd buy the Midi Raider. Bottom line, if all that's needed is the ability to switch up and down between rigs the Midi Mate is fine.

Thanks. The Midi Mate looks great, and looks a lot like the pedalboard that Sean uses in the 11R videos? How are the buttons on the Midi Mate? Like I said, the mechanical noise from the Line6 pedalboard is loud and awful, and I can't have that.

[moff]

Here's a long reply to the OPs "aside" comment .

I've always been a tube amp guy, but had a history of amp GAS, right from the time I got my JMP/4x12 in 1978, through numerous Fenders, Mesas, and Marshalls, to the Mesa .50 Cal I bought in '95/'96. If I had one brand, I wanted the other. Then I was shown a Flextone, and how pretty much everything I wanted was in there. I became a big proponent of Line6 amps. While they slowed my amp gas quite a bit, it became evident that I couldn't make it do what I wanted. Despite numerous upgrades in firmware, changing speakers, adding a Valvulator 1, and even upgrading to the Flextone II, POD, POD2, XT Live, there was always "something" missing, and eventually, I went back to tube amps.

Fast forward to about a year ago, when we resurrected a Chicago tribute band that I had previously been involved with. I knew that at least one of the horn players was, let's say, "allergic" to guitar. I remembered at rehearsal I couldn't get the volume up to where I could hear what I was playing before this guy was asking me to turn it down because it was "killing' him. I decided that this time around, I'd avoid the problem altogether and go with a direct-to-FOH solution and in-ears.

Out came the old XT Live, which I knew was getting dated. I looked at the current (then) Line6 offerings, and was considering the X3 Live or the Pro for the better features. I also started looking around for what was new, and that's how I found the 11R. Lots of comparisons, reviews, and opinions later, I bought one, and it turned out to be perfect for what I needed.

Once I got everything programmed, I decided it would be a good idea to have some kind of backup, so I tried to duplicate my 11R patches on the XT Live. Not even close. The XT Live wasn't fit to carry the 11R's garbage. In fairness to Line 6, I did try out an HD500 the other day (not to jump ship - I work in a music store these days and needed some product knowledge). It's OK I guess, and definitely blows the XT Live out of the water, but still is nowhere near the "naturalness" of the 11R.

So, OP, I don't think you're any pickier than the rest of us. It's just that once you know how to use the 11R, the Line6 stuff seems like a toy.

@ Bredo - Agreed. For some reason, some (especially inexperienced) guitarists haven't learned that the "uber cool" guitar patch that's slathered in delay, reverb, and chorus might sound great at home, but won't cut it live, nor will it record well. It might be a perfect recreation of the guitar sound on "<insert song title here>", but they don't realize that many of those FX were likely added in the mixdown, not when tracking. I always track guitars dry (without delay or rev). If flange\phase\chorus is absolutely needed while tracking (for the vibe), I'll add it in the headphone bus, so I can keep the track dry, and add FX for real in the mixdown. Or just re-amp.

Further to the above, then there are the guitarists who haven't yet learned that a heavily saturated, over-scooped "bumble bee" guitar tone that sounds great in their bedrooms sounds like crap in context of the rest of the band, and doesn't record well.

Ok, my novel's over...

[Stig Eliassen]

Moff, great novel - I even read all of it.

Good to get some confirmation from other Line6 users who's made the switch. Thanks a lot.

BTW, those horn players shouldn't complain. It's loud and brassy high mid overkill bonanza every time they're around.