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  #21  
Old 12-01-2011, 03:29 PM
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John_Toolbox John_Toolbox is offline
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diccer
But to be sure Avid has no conscience about using other company's hard earned software plug ins on their platform

Even if AVID did allow all of those formats in PT, I don't understand what is lacking conscience about that. I can just see the board meeting:

"How evil, this'll really sock it to 'em! MUHUHAHAHA, for todays evil agenda, you can now use another company's plugins in Pro Tools, even though we didn't develop the format!!!! MUHUHAHAHA!!!!! We are really going to rip off those people who make VSTs, yeah. They're going to be so pissed off when they find out that their sales increase because now a plugin that used to only work in Cubase can be used in Pro Tools. They are so mad that their sales increased. We really ripped them off! MUHUHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! "
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Diccer Diccer is offline
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

AVID WILL NOT ALLOW RTAS TO BE USED BY OTHER DAWS MANNY(and TOOL), THAT IS WHY NO OTHER DAW HAS THE CAPABILITY. AVID LEGALLY PREVENTS IT!!!!!!
THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE

Conscience refers more to consistency in behavior- if I can use yours you can use mine.. I think they call that sharing

And on the the note of other formats and other company flexibility:
AU plays directly in Ableton, Digital Performer and others
VST plays in just about everything, no silly fxpansion adapter needed
Its an OPEN WORLD outside of Pro Tools

And Tool, are you trying to sound more like a cow?
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2011, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

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Originally Posted by Diccer View Post
Conscience refers more to consistency in behavior- if I can use yours you can use mine.. I think they call that sharing
Actually it most likely has to do with numbers. Avid didn't develop the VST to RTAS adaptor because they probably don't see it as profitable, which is the same reason they don't bother to add support for all of the other plugin formats. FXpansion, a much smaller operation, did develop it. I'm guessing for them, the profit was acceptable. But they don't have the overhead that AVID has. Avid never "LET" you use VSTs in Pro Tools, FXpansion did.

Now, how many RTAS plugins are RTAS only? Not a lot, in almost every case, RTAS plugins made by a 3rd party developer already have a VST equivalent. So the only plugins that AVID has exclusively are the plugins that they develop themselves. If they thought it would be profitable to make VST versions of these, I'm sure they would, but I'm guessing very few people are actually interested in running the few RTAS only plugins out there in Cubase, so it's not going to be profitable. Again, they are a business for profit, so it's all about numbers.

Quote:
And Tool, are you trying to sound more like a cow?
Moo Bet.
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

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Originally Posted by Diccer View Post
AVID WILL NOT ALLOW RTAS TO BE USED BY OTHER DAWS MANNY(and TOOL), THAT IS WHY NO OTHER DAW HAS THE CAPABILITY. AVID LEGALLY PREVENTS IT!!!!!!
THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE
You can/could in digital performer if the tdm or hd harware dea was loaded.

You can't on others because

1 Avid didnt licence the right for other daws to compete with them on their own plugin format, very logical. If you own a plugin format that is not open source, would you allow a competitor to use your plugin format and decrease your own sales?

2 While apple doesn't really care if other companies use AU plugins boost there sales. Logic isn't a marketing (as in sales) priority for apple, who also owns garageband, which would explain why it can use the plugin. The only other 4 that uses AU are digital performer, MOTU have been long time partner with apples for developing hardwares and plugins for apple, which dp also only works on Apples computer, so a source of revenue for apple. Then there's Studio one from presonus who isn't really a competition for apple, nor is reaper as it's in an other business model completely or even ableton live which is really more for live performance so again no in competition with apples product. Those are the only 4 others non apple product that uses AU, which one of the 4 is a deeply connected contributor to apple.

And 3 AU is not only a plugin format it's actually a lot more as Audio Units are a set of application programming interface services provided by the operating system to generate, process, receive, or otherwise manipulate streams of audio in near-real-time with minimal latency. This mean that Au are part of Core Audio and are integral to Mac OS X. Rtas Are not an integral part of any operating system, like Audio untis is.

I'd suspect that avid could have used AU if they wanted to due to the daw working on apples platform, but then there might have been some costly licensing that avid would have had to pay as they are the biggest and direct competitors to apples software's. not to mention that Apple would not have allowed the windows version of PT to work with AU most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diccer View Post
Conscience refers more to consistency in behavior- if I can use yours you can use mine.. I think they call that sharing
This has been covered in my previous paragraph. VST is a free license to develope, Au is an intergral part of the coreaudio of os x and in such is also free to develope. RTAS is proprietary and requires license to develop.

Again, In pro tools, none of the other plugins format can actually work natively without actual emulation (fx pansion for example). So why would they share with those other companies, if they don't even use their plugin format? They could have sold licenses so that the other daws could use RTAS formats, but Avid would be losing more money over that, that they would be making. Offering more tools to your competitors. And as John has said the vast majority of the pluing base for PT is actually developed by 3rd parties who also make au and VST version of those plugins. Which in essence negates any marketing possibility avid could have had to license the use of the rtas format to be used in other daws. Because the other two are based on free development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diccer View Post
And on the the note of other formats and other company flexibility:
AU plays directly in Ableton, Digital Performer and others
VST plays in just about everything, no silly fxpansion adapter needed
Its an OPEN WORLD outside of Pro Tools
As I said, ableton isn't in competition with any of Apples software as their focus if for live application. Digital performer is made by the mark of the unicorn and only works on Apples computers, which is a source of revenue for apple, not to mention that both have been long time partners in development of hardware and software. That leaves presonus and repear, none of these are even in competition with Apple, since for apple Logic is far from being a market priority. Placing logic to be a single platform only daw made sure of that. They didn't do it to make money with the software but to make sure more of their own hardwares would sell. instead of giving the possibility to the users of logic to pay less and hand in a product to their hardware competitors in the pc world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diccer View Post
And Tool, are you trying to sound more like a cow?
Do you really thing that insulting people is going to earn you any points or even pass you for a mature and professional guy?
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  #25  
Old 12-02-2011, 04:51 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post

Do you really thing that insulting people is going to earn you any points or even pass you for a mature and professional guy?
Naw, it'll just get him another warning from DTS. Happened before and it'll probably happen again. What I don't get is why a poster here would want to commit suicide like this? If you have a beef with PT there's better ways of expressing it.
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2011, 06:11 AM
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

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Originally Posted by John_Toolbox View Post
I can just see the board meeting:

"How evil, this'll really sock it to 'em! MUHUHAHAHA..."
Classic onomatopoeia, no cow, that's Dr. Evil laughing. I guess if you never saw an Austin Powers movie, you would miss the humor.
  #27  
Old 12-02-2011, 09:35 AM
Diccer Diccer is offline
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Wink Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

Panamajack
Well since we've resorted to doing onomatopoeias, I think John Toolbox would probably do a better F.B. than he would Dr Evil. But then again I wouldn't know since I don't work with him like y'all do..
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2011, 10:12 AM
matthias.matthias matthias.matthias is offline
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

For us user open standards are the best. We should always ask companies to use them and support those that do. Open standards help developing new technology faster where as closed systems often hinder new developments. The MIDI standard is the classic positive example. Most of the negative examples are long forgotten ...

Avid makes short to mid term business decisions. They are not developing software primarily for us, but to make money. I guess as long as Avid considers themselves the industry standard they'll see no reason to bother. This is legitimate, but us users should support and ask for what's best for us. Has the open VST-standard hurt Steinberg?
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2011, 06:29 PM
Diccer Diccer is offline
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

I doubt it hurt Steinberg, they're doing quite well. In fact if RTAS was open Avid really could only benefit. Its Avid's handmedown anyway, not the PT HD carrot it used to be..
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http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=313749
  #30  
Old 12-04-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Will the new AAX plugs be supported in other daw's?

Open standards are the best? The best at what exactly? Oh, here comes the socialistic claim that its the best for the consumer (meaning me). That's a load of bald-faced BS!

Open standards are fine for LAME or Wikipedia, I'm not paying for them which would command a level of expected service and performance. I choose to use Pro Tools. That is where I put my money. I expect a certain level or service and performance, and one of them is to not be subject to the vagaries of "open standards".

Maybe you guys should move to Audacity.
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