I need more inputs than my 8 from 002R?

[Noviisi]

Hello!

I'm planning to record more than 8 inputs with my pro tools system (002).
How can I expand my system? Do I need to buy another interface? Another 002 or is some other hardware ok? What do you recommend? Is it usual to buy pre-amps for those digi 002 inputs that don't have pre-amps? What preamps are a one step better preamps than the digi002 preamps?

thanks for sharing!

[therecordinghouse]

focusrite octopre
focusrite octopre le
presonus digimax
m audio octane

[IntelDoc]

Apogee Rosetta 800 ad a TON of outboard pre's running to it..


Doc

[Noviisi]

Ok, I could buy Octopre, Octane of DigiMAX and gain 8 additional inputs (preamps).
How do these preamps connect to my 002R? Are these better than the preamps in 002R?
I figure I could get 16 inputs (12 preamps) with this setup. That should be enough for a standard band recording I quess. (?)
What if I would need even more? Is it possible to ran two 002R's at the same time and have 32 inputs?
How would these 002R's connect to eachother and to PTLE? Does PTLE support this kinf of configuration?

Have I understood correctly: Apogee Rosetta 800 is THE best A/D converter? Buying this would bring my recordings to new level? Rosetta 800 A/D is much better than 002R A/D? But I would need some very expensive preamps also....? I quess octopre, octane or digimaxx are satisfied with digi002 A/D converter. If I had hardcore Focusrite or Neve or Api or Chandler or D.W.Fearn or Manley or Tube-Tech or Millennia or Universal Audio or Fairchild I could go with Rosetta.... ;D But I'm afraid it will take some 10 years to get even one of those professional preamps for me .... But hey, it's more about the music and less about the gear (said a poor man).

So, help me to understand how to connect these hardware and does it require some adjustments in the PTLE? how have you turn those 4 line inputs into 4 preamps in your digi002?

- True Novice

[MrJoshua]

The preamps mentioned above all have ADAT optical outputs, which can be connected via a single optical cable to the optical input on the back of your Digi002 Rack. Then you just set the input on your ProTools track to record from ADAT 1-8. You'll also want to tell ProTools to use the external clock signal coming via the ADAT input, as well as making sure your session and the external preamp are set to the same frequency and bit rate.

To use the line inputs, I just use a mixer. I run into the regular mic preamps on my mixer, then to one of the four busses on my mixer, and out to the line inputs on the Digi002 Rack.

[2012]

MrJoshua...

you can pick up a like-new Octane from me, even cheaper over in the Buy & Sell section:

M-Audio Octane for Sale

[Obsidian Dragon]

Quote
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Is it possible to ran two 002R's at the same time and have 32 inputs?
How would these 002R's connect to eachother and to PTLE? Does PTLE support this kinf of configuration?
-----------------------------------------

The answer is "NO." Everybody else has anser about using the ADAT i/o for 8 more inputs. I have the DigiMax LE and it works well.

I'd like to mention a basic method of tracking that we may have assumed you knew but did not want to use. I'm stating the obvious but no one else has mentioned it here yet. You don't need to mic and record the whole band at the same time.

It is common to say for example record the click track to track 1. Then record the scratch melody and rhythm to track 2. Then record the drums to a few tracks using 4 mics to tracks 3-6. Then record the bass directly or with a mic to tracks 7. Then record the rhythm guitar using two mics to tracks 8 and 9. Then record the keyboards left and right to tracks 10 & 11 (or use a stereo track). Then record the lead guitar parts to tracks 12 with some other takes on tracks 13 - 17 (Guitarist like to play it many different ways. You get the idea? I've done projects with just three or four mics. Unless you are like Doc and have a collection of high-end preamps (you sound like you know what's out there), try to get by with a little and grow as you go and can afford more.

Sorry if I offend you with this basic stuff but everytime I hear someone say they want more inputs I wonder if they forget the "build by parts" technique. Besides you have much more control over bleeding of sounds to other mics. You will also be able to mix with more discrete tracks. It is difficult to bring up the lead gitar part without the snare drum getting louder too if the drums have blead onto thd lead guitar track too. The problem is usually the "talent" (funny title for someone without talent) not being able to play their part without the rest of the band playing.

[MrJoshua]

Overdubbing is an important technique for sure. I have a SM-Pro Audio 8-channel preamp with ADAT out that I use when I need more than eight inputs at a time, which basically means I only use it when recording one of our live shows. Since we only do that for our own benefit (to hear if we get sloppy anywhere, etc.) then it doesn't matter that the SM-Pro doesn't have great converters and adds some noise to the mix.

Now, when we're recording in an attempt to get something really good laid down, sometimes I still use the SM-Pro, but in that case I patch the direct outs from the preamps into the inputs on the 002 Rack. That way I can have, for example, the drums set up on the SM-Pro, all the levels set on the preamp, and then use the mixer to do guitar amp mics, bass, and vocals. Then I don't have to touch any level adjustments again for quite a while. The preamps are fairly decent, although not pro quality I'm sure. But they do quite well for my spare-room recordings.

[Noviisi]

Quote Obsidian Dragon
-----------------------------------------
Is it possible to ran two 002R's at the same time and have 32 inputs?
How would these 002R's connect to eachother and to PTLE? Does PTLE support this kinf of configuration?
-----------------------------------------

The answer is "NO." Everybody else has anser about using the ADAT i/o for 8 more inputs. I have the DigiMax LE and it works well.

I'd like to mention a basic method of tracking that we may have assumed you knew but did not want to use.

"Build by parts" technique is what I use most of the time and I like it. It has many advantages that you mentioned. Being able to avoid the mic leak is great.
BUT sometimes the band you record wants to be able to play together for the feel and groove. And I too feel (as a bass and drum player) that it is important to be able to record together for that perfect sync. Yeah, I could do drums and bass with the 8 inputs of 002R and then record the rest of the band later. Sounds like a good approach. And I totally agree that it is best to record guitarists and vocalists separately because it usually will take many takes to have them satisfied.

But as I'm playing with the idea of upgrading my studio I want to know what choices I have.
8 preamp ADAT sounds like a good upgrade to me. Thanks for info so far about these different ADAT preamps. It's good to have this many boxes to choose from. I'm a bit of a Focusrite fan but the PreSonus looks very good too.

Quote Obsidian Dragon
Unless you are like Doc and have a collection of high-end preamps (you sound like you know what's out there), try to get by with a little and grow as you go and can afford more.

All I've got at the moment is Focusrite Penta (wich I like a lot) ... well, I know that there are some boxes out there that could give me a sweeter sound but haven't actually used many of them.

Quote Obsidian Dragon
Sorry if I offend you with this basic stuff but everytime I hear someone say they want more inputs I wonder if they forget the "build by parts" technique. The problem is usually the "talent" (funny title for someone without talent) not being able to play their part without the rest of the band playing.

Your stuff was Good! It's good to have many different opinions and thoughts. And it's way too easy to stuck in to just one way of doing things and forget all the rest.

So, I forget dreams about more than 16 preamp inputs.

Best system: Neve / Api / UA etc. -> Apogee Rosetta 800 -> Firewire or ADAT ? to 002R -> PTLE

Good system: Octopre (LE) / DigiMax -> ADAT -> 002R -> PTLE

Also good system: Mixer -> line input 002 / ADAT if mixer has it -> 002R -> PTLE

Do you have compressors between your preamps and Rosetta/002 A/D converters? Anything to recommend?

Thanks! You really helped me understand how a nice music studio is built.

-noviisi