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  #271  
Old 10-19-2019, 02:40 PM
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JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

I don't ever give tracks away for free, but if someone pays for session archiving I deliver three versions of each track:

1) the original
2) plugins printed
3) plugins and automation printed, with pan setting in file name

Everything starting from zero, obviously. Otherwise why bother
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  #272  
Old 10-19-2019, 03:17 PM
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WombatStudio.Org WombatStudio.Org is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
I don't ever give tracks away for free
Sorry to perpetuate this tangent away from 'Avid bad, Updates good' - I considered PMing you, but I also figured others would benefit from reading this. As a moderator I guess you could split into a new topic or whatever, but;

I always assumed (from past forum lurking) that when someone came in and paid studio time - those tracks belonged to them.

I think those discussions went on further with the scenario that a band came in a recorded but never followed through to the end - the engineer decided to mix and release as part of his portfolio or something and got flack from the band. Thus questioning the ownership of those tracks.

Even further, studio owners discussing whether it was their liability to keep those tracks indefinitely in case those people came back wanting their tracks and the responsibilities of disk space and backups.

Regardless of the further discussion, I am curious as to your 'never giving tracks away for free' when I assumed that whatever people did with their time in my space that they could leave with what they'd done.
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  #273  
Old 10-19-2019, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

That all depends on what kind of deal you make, obviously.

I only do projects that "I own" therefore only deliverable is the final mix and one tweak to it. Everything else is extra, because I would rather mix next project than do session archiving or a dozen tweaks that never make much sense anyway.

Of course you never say never. So far no millions on my table but should that happen I'd be happy to cook bacon and eggs if that client was hungry. You get the picture.

Now with that said I obviously backup my stuff, but that has nothing to do with giving tracks away for free.
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  #274  
Old 10-19-2019, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by WombatStudio.Org View Post
Even further, studio owners discussing whether it was their liability to keep those tracks indefinitely in case those people came back wanting their tracks and the responsibilities of disk space and backups.
Back in the day you needed a reel of tape to make it happen. It was clear that the reel was owned by someone. It is just the same today, just different deliverables. I am more of a producer that owns the reel and is responsible of keeping it safe, in case it is needed again in the future.

As in the multitrack (reel) is not a deliverable, 2-track mix is.
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  #275  
Old 10-19-2019, 04:17 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WombatStudio.Org View Post
Sorry to perpetuate this tangent away from 'Avid bad, Updates good' - I considered PMing you, but I also figured others would benefit from reading this. As a moderator I guess you could split into a new topic or whatever, but;

I always assumed (from past forum lurking) that when someone came in and paid studio time - those tracks belonged to them.

I think those discussions went on further with the scenario that a band came in a recorded but never followed through to the end - the engineer decided to mix and release as part of his portfolio or something and got flack from the band. Thus questioning the ownership of those tracks.

Even further, studio owners discussing whether it was their liability to keep those tracks indefinitely in case those people came back wanting their tracks and the responsibilities of disk space and backups.

Regardless of the further discussion, I am curious as to your 'never giving tracks away for free' when I assumed that whatever people did with their time in my space that they could leave with what they'd done.
Wombatstudio,
Thanks for the response. I think it actually is relevant to the topic in a small way. If you don't want to stay on the subscription plan and work with legacy versions, archiving your files is something we all need to do. I've never done it since I've stayed current, but if that reality changes this discussion has helped me. I think migrating your wav files to the DAW you will be using is ultimately the way to go. That way you have a current version. I don't have hundreds of songs so that won't be a problem. I do have over 60 original songs/compositions, which I'd say about 40 or so are Pro Tools sessions, so that would be time consuming to transfer over but I'll need to do it eventually. Thanks again for the input.
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  #276  
Old 10-19-2019, 04:19 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
your Printed Tracks would just be a bunch of Wav Files ... not dependant on ANY Daw ... !!!

cheers john
Thanks John!
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  #277  
Old 10-19-2019, 04:22 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

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Originally Posted by deanrichard View Post
But any previous mixing is lost. Obviously you can open the track files, but without the mixing everything you have done is lost. Sometimes I want to do a few tweaks of a mix for video or other purposes, or need a redone mix without lead vocal, etc. Those things require the ability to open a session. Yes, one can print the FX, but that defeats the purpose.
Dean,
See this is where I am with you. In an ideal world, you keep the session as is and it magically opens forever But then there is this thing called reality which keeps getting in the way of my utopian bliss. So looks like saving the session as wav files and then (one day) importing them into another DAW would be the way to go. Luckily the WAV format isn't going away anytime soon...I hope

I think many folks that have moved on from Pro Tools keep their subscription current just so they can open their old files. That's my guess anyway.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program: Are we not due an update??!!
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  #278  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:28 PM
deanrichard deanrichard is offline
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

But I don't want #2. I want the ability to recall a mix and tweak it. That means open it and adjust automation, FX, etc. I realize that if I have no other choice, #2 is one way to go. But it is not accomplishing the desired goal, and is very limiting. And frankly, it shouldn't be necessary. Why the heck should a user not be able to open an old mix? Not being able to do so is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john1192 View Post
depends on how you print your track !!

#1- print tracks RAW, no Automation .. so as you say No Mix Elements
#2-print tracks WITH Automatioin and Print All FX .. in this way, your Mix would return to you .. sans, your Master Bus Processing, if you did any ..

now, this would probably sufice for archive for most people .. having to open sessions and do little tweaks .. obviously not .. keep an older system intact and fire it up once in awhile .. making sure the entire system Boot Drives and All are Backed up 2-3 times !!

fun stuff !!!

john
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  #279  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:45 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanrichard View Post
But I don't want #2. I want the ability to recall a mix and tweak it. That means open it and adjust automation, FX, etc. I realize that if I have no other choice, #2 is one way to go. But it is not accomplishing the desired goal, and is very limiting. And frankly, it shouldn't be necessary. Why the heck should a user not be able to open an old mix? Not being able to do so is ridiculous.

But you can if you’re prepared to park your system and maintain it. But electronics will eventually fail. You’d need to make sure the drives still power up. The power supply in the computer doesn’t crap out. Etc. Etc.

I have a friend who’s a successful producer (underground dance music) using PT8. Hasn’t updated his iMac, interface or software in god knows how long. The Mac has had its HD changed, but it’s still kicking along and does what he needs it to.

At the end of the day, it’s our choice to update the software unless we’re forced into it via a computer upgrade. At that point, one would hope you’re finally happy with the mix of a song! =P


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  #280  
Old 10-20-2019, 05:02 AM
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Default Re: Are we not due an update??!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanrichard View Post
But I don't want #2. I want the ability to recall a mix and tweak it. That means open it and adjust automation, FX, etc. I realize that if I have no other choice, #2 is one way to go. But it is not accomplishing the desired goal, and is very limiting. And frankly, it shouldn't be necessary. Why the heck should a user not be able to open an old mix? Not being able to do so is ridiculous.
I have always been able to open old PT sessions (those using AIFF files being the one exception that AVID SHOULD fix). The issue is the plug-ins. It is very rare that all the plugins used on an old session still exist or that their current versions can read the settings of the old ones. After a certain period of time, a remix is going to be required.

When archiving a session, you should ALWAYS consolidate all tracks as single WAV's from the start to finish. If I had to remix an old piece, whether I did it originally or not, I'd want the raw tracks not ones EQ'd, Compressed etc to work with.
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