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  #1  
Old 11-23-2014, 11:18 AM
Johnrg Johnrg is offline
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Default How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

Hi all,

I have a drum track that was recorded to a protools grid and protools generated click but was not beat detectived. It grooves around the exact grid a little but is mostly about 1/64th to 1/128th in front of the protools grid at the tempo we used.

I have recorded a tambourine track to these drums thats a bit sloppy. I want to quantize it to the drum track beats and sub beats, NOT the protools grid.

Tried lots of things to do this over the last few nights, namely extracting a tempo map from analysing the drum tracks in a selection/region and then trying to seperate and conform the tambourine to this map, but it never seems to work, at best some beats, subbeats line up with the drums, others dont, at worst it moves the tambourine all around the place and does not work at all.

What am i doing wrong?, seems like im missing something very simple. Maybe this is not possible?

Using PT 8.03

JohnG
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:16 AM
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DC-Choppah DC-Choppah is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

You need to create a tempo map manually. You do that by moving along the drum track using 'tab to transients', and then use 'identify beat' to indicate the beat.

If he fluctuates at the quarter note level, then you will need to identify down to the quarter note. Usually doing every bar is OK though, but it depends on the performer.

Once you have these bar beat markers, then you will have a tempo track that is locked on to the drummer and you can use MIDI to place notes on the grid that conform to it automatically.
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:56 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnrg View Post
Hi all,

I have a drum track that was recorded to a protools grid and protools generated click but was not beat detectived. It grooves around the exact grid a little but is mostly about 1/64th to 1/128th in front of the protools grid at the tempo we used.

I have recorded a tambourine track to these drums thats a bit sloppy. I want to quantize it to the drum track beats and sub beats, NOT the protools grid.

Tried lots of things to do this over the last few nights, namely extracting a tempo map from analysing the drum tracks in a selection/region and then trying to seperate and conform the tambourine to this map, but it never seems to work, at best some beats, subbeats line up with the drums, others dont, at worst it moves the tambourine all around the place and does not work at all.

What am i doing wrong?, seems like im missing something very simple. Maybe this is not possible?

Using PT 8.03

JohnG
A couple of notes (pun intended)...

The grid is a fixed reference...quantization is done relative to this reference. I don't know of any way to quantize relative to anything other than the grid.

"I have recorded ..." If this means you were playing the tambourine (not just engineering), re-recording the part is probably your best option...
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:57 AM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

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Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
The grid is a fixed reference...quantization is done relative to this reference. I don't know of any way to quantize relative to anything other than the grid.
The grid can be set to Clips and Markers after using Beat Detective to capture, analyze, and separate. That should get him where he wants to be.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

I believe what you really want; is to use Beat Detective to EXTRACT the groove from the kit, and apply it to the tambourine
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2014, 07:03 PM
Johnrg Johnrg is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies,

I want it very accurate, tried to re-record but its not tight enough with the drums.

I have been trying to use beat detective to "extract" the groove. Seems simple but does not seem to work "perfectly"

Heres what I do:

I select four bars on the protools grid, capture this as a selection and then use collection mode to analyze and pick up the kick and snare beats.

I then extract this as a "groove" to the clipboard (maybe i should be generating it as a tempo map instead?).

I then select the same four bars in the tamborine audio region, analyise the beats, seperate them and then confirm them to the clipboard groove template i previously saved.

It works "OK" but seems really hit and miss, some of the tambourine beats line up perfectly, others get moved slightly in front of, or behind the beat. You can hear that these are slighty off, which i dont want.

The less bars I do the more accurate it is, but its lots of work to do this two bars at a time over quite a long song. Must be an easier more accurate to do this?

JohnG
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2014, 08:04 PM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnrg View Post
The less bars I do the more accurate it is, but its lots of work to do this two bars at a time over quite a long song. Must be an easier more accurate to do this?
This is the way they tell you to do it.

You probably need to really see how far off the drummer is.....if he is not on the grid and continually wavers off, you can't expect extract a groove of bars4-8 and then apply the groove to the bars 32-36 of the tambourine and expect them to sync if the drummer isn't playing on the grid.


I think you would be better off, starting at the drum tracks first and working it out with BD then.....conforming them to the existing PT grid.....and then the tambourine will fit like it's supposed to......

My $0.02
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:27 AM
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Ben Jenssen Ben Jenssen is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

If I understood you correctly, you want to have the grid line up with the recorded (imperfect) drums, and then quantize the tambourine to the grid now varying a little in tempo, like the drums.

That's Beat Detective Tempo Mapping.
It's in the PT Reference.

And here:
Youtube: Pro Tools Tutorial - Tempo Mapping
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2014, 06:30 AM
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DC-Choppah DC-Choppah is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

There is always a contest between 'Beat Detective' vs 'Identify Beat'.

You can try Beat Detective first, but if it is not working on your material, Identify Beat / Tab to Transients is the backup and is foolproof.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2014, 09:57 AM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Default Re: How to make a "grid" out of a drum track to beat detective a tambourine to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-Choppah View Post
There is always a contest between 'Beat Detective' vs 'Identify Beat'.
I think of it like this:

Identify Beat is for conforming your session to your material, Beat Detective is for conforming your material to your session.
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