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  #1  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:33 PM
jackmackdaddy jackmackdaddy is offline
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Default Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

Hi - I've just bought NI Komplete 12 Ultimate and will be buying a suitable external SSD from which to run it. I'm running PT 2018.7.0 on a 2018 iMac 10.13.2. I've got a few questions which I hope to keep short and please feel free to keep any answers just as short:

1) Would there be any issues running my PT sessions from the same SSD (as Komplete) or should I still keep them separate? (I currently use a Glyph GT062E for my PT sessions which is obviously slower than an SSD but was wondering if best practise is still to keep your sessions and your samples separate)

2) (a) Should I get an external SSD with USB or Thunderbolt interface? My iMac has 4 USB ports and 2 Thunderbolt.

2) (b) Do either powered or unpowered USB/Thunderbolt hubs inhibit speed/performance if I do need to expand my number of ports?

Many thanks

John
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2019, 03:06 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

What internal drive does the iMac have? How large is it and how much free space does it have? How large are the NI sample libraries ?

If you have an internal SSD that is a stinking fast PCIe/NVMe SSD. That is almost always the best location to run your sessions... way better than a Glyph GT062E (use that as a backup drive).

USB SSDs at best are multiple of times slower than an internal NVMe SSD.

If you have samples that can fit on an internal super-fast SSD, start by trying to put them there, shared with the session. But unless you purchased the largest internal SSD then NI complete likely won't fit. Then your choices are...

1. Maximum performance
Get a Thunderbolt 3 NVMe SSD like a Samsung X5, that will give you performance close to the internal NVMe SSD. At a higher price than a USB drive. If you don't have a fast internal SSD I'd consider this and try running sessions on the same drive... and reduce the number of drives/cables/connectors needed. What are connected to your USB-C/Thunderbolt ports now?

2. Less performance
A USB SSD sample drive. But you need thing specific here, a 2018 iMac has a USB 3.1 Gen 2 via the USB-C ports and USB 3.0 aka 3.1 Gen 1 via the USB-A ports. For many users this is a great choice at less than half the price of a same sized X5.

So if you have a USB-C port free use that with a USB 3.1 Gen 2 SSD on those ports which will give slightly faster performance (not the 2x the raw USB 3.1 Gen 1 -> Gen 2 speeds imply). A Samsung T5 is a good example.

And what are you trying to achieve/solve/worried about? Session startup/sample load time? VI sample streaming performance, Trying to reduce cost? etc. ... it could be that you'll get acceptable to you performance on a 4800 RPM HDD... we can't guess. At the other extreme you can spend $800 or more on a 2TB NVMe SSD and might still need to spend time tuning NI to get it to perform as you want.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:33 PM
jackmackdaddy jackmackdaddy is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

Hey Darryl - thanks so much for getting back and with such great info.

The iMac's internal drive is PCI-Express/Fusion Drive/CoreStorage Logical Volume (...?). It is 1TB and half of that is currently free. The NI software download size is 450GB so I'm guessing it'll be more than that on the drive which is why I'm kinda forced into getting an external SSD (which is fine). I currently run a previous version of NI Komplete from the system drive and it works great.

Currently my USB-C ports have an old Digi003 in one and an external monitor going into the other. All four of my USB ports are occupied too.

My aim is to have fast/uninterrupted VI streaming performance with minimum latency. Sample load time secondary.

So you'd run sessions off my iMac SSD and budget permitting, load samples from a Samsung X5 via Thunderbolt 2?
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:13 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

Ugggh not a Fusion drive. We all try to shout everywhere to avoid that. The inconsistent performance of those drives can be annoying, even annoying enough as a boot/general drive.

If it was my system I would try to deconfigure the two halfs of the internal Fusion drive (instructions all over the web) and use the SSD part as a boot/system drive and the HDD part (hopefully it's a 7200 RPM drive) as a spare. The SSD may be too small to run sessions from there.

You should find the actual installed size of the libraries, pretty important and must be documented somewhere.

If you want to go with a Thunderbolt 3/NVMe drive you need a way of chaining that drive with the other peripherals you need. The Samsung X5 has a single Thunderbolt port. You can find other drives with dual Thunderbolt ports, so for example you can chain a monitor or your interface on the same Thunderbolt chain (thunderbolt does not have USB style hubs that split the thunderbolt connection itself-so called "Thunderbolt hubs" are really docks/IO adapters). But the effort to get the fastest IO performance here giving what you are starting with may not be worth the hassle unless you run into real problem.

But seems like you might end up with samples on a 2TB T5 connected a USB 3 hub off one of the USB-A ports. Or you could look at adding the OWC Thunderbolt3 dock to give you more USB ports... which includes a USB 3.1 Gen 2 port for a bit more performance with the T5.
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:05 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

To the OP:
Open up the case (OWC has the tools) and change out that Fusion drive for a true SSD per Darryl's recommendations.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:38 PM
jackmackdaddy jackmackdaddy is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

So that's what a fusion drive means.... ok, thanks, I'll try and split it into two halves and see how that goes.

That's a great idea on getting an SSD with another Thunderbolt port for my external monitor if that's the road I go down but I think I'll try the T5 off one of my USB-A ports first and see if that is efficient. I do have a Lacie Rugged which I never use and I think it has enough space on it so I'll try loading the samples onto it first and then go down the other route if necessary.

Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers

John
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:57 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

Unclear which of all the different LaCie Rugged HDD or SSD models you are talking about. A thunderbolt one is not going to work (as Thunderbolt) if you cannot chain the Thunderbolt devices you have. But since the Lacie Thunderbolt Rugged drives are only SATA internally if you have a Thunderbolt+USB model you can run them as USB 3 and not lose much.

If you are out of physical USB ports on the iMac then I would stat by getting the OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock I mentioned. https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3DK14PSL

Make one change at a time... (while I said what I'd do :-O if thing are woking OK now you might be better off just adding SSD samples to that USB SSD first and seeing how things work). You have a lot to work out to decide if you want a "best possible" setup... from just splitting the Fusion drive to upgrading to a larger internal SSD... wether any of that is worth doing depends on where you are trying to get to.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:12 AM
jackmackdaddy jackmackdaddy is offline
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Default Re: Komplete 12 Ultimate on SSD

Yes, good advice. I'll start slowly and see what needs adding as I go along. I have quite an intensive project starting in January so I'll know soon enough if I need to go all out or not. Thanks again for all the help Daryll. Pints are on me when we meet!
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