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  #1  
Old 01-31-2008, 02:19 PM
cprescott1972 cprescott1972 is offline
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Default 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Hi. I am wondering if it's possible to have 8 digital inputs at 96k on a Digi 002. I am thinking about upgrading to a Rosetta 800 so that I can get better conversion both in and out. I am gonna be mixing out of the box now and I don't want to degrade the signals via the questionable D/A conversions on the 002.
From what I can tell up to 48k is no problem via light pipe. Also the Spdif can do 2 channels of 96k. So is a Rosetta 800 sort of pointless then? Especially is it goes all the way to 192k!
Anyone have any thoughts on converters that may work with the Digi inputs to give me 8 in at a time?
Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:46 PM
Ziko Ziko is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

I could be wrong but I believe it's a limitation of the optical format. With one optical port, you can have either 8 channels at up to 48KHz or 4 channels at up to 88 or maybe 96KHz.

Both your 002 and most of the convertor appliances like the Rosetta or the Digimax etc can output/input signals at up to 96KHz or more, it's the optical link itself that has the limitation.

So if you want 8 more channels on a 002 that comes with only one optical in, you'll have to run at 44.1 or 48.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:56 PM
stoneinapond stoneinapond is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Quote:
Hi. I am wondering if it's possible to have 8 digital inputs at 96k on a Digi 002. I am thinking about upgrading to a Rosetta 800 so that I can get better conversion both in and out. I am gonna be mixing out of the box now and I don't want to degrade the signals via the questionable D/A conversions on the 002.
From what I can tell up to 48k is no problem via light pipe. Also the Spdif can do 2 channels of 96k. So is a Rosetta 800 sort of pointless then? Especially is it goes all the way to 192k!
Anyone have any thoughts on converters that may work with the Digi inputs to give me 8 in at a time?
Thanks!
The Rosetta 800 is a wonderful converter and a great addition to an LE system, propelling the sound quality into HD/192 territory and perhaps a little beyond.

However, the limitation for anything above 48kHz is a 002/003 issue in that neither interface support S/MUX, or sample rates higher than 48kHz over Lightpipe.

So you can get eight, high quality channels of input and output, but not above 48kHz. That will apply to any eight-channel converter you use.

Is the Rosetta overkill at 48kHz? To me no, but as always, your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:52 PM
OddsAre OddsAre is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Quote:
Is the Rosetta overkill at 48kHz? To me no, but as always, your mileage may vary.
To me, tracking and mixing at 96k is the part that is overkill. What are you running for monitors, and is your listening environment professionally designed and treated? Who masters your tracks? If it is not being mastered at a world class facility, then chances are, doing you projects at 96k is a bit overkill.

Are you using the Rosetta for your inputs leading into Pro Tools, or your 002's mic pre's? If you are using the 002 mic pre's then there is reason number 10 that 96k is overkill. They are the noisiest pre's i have heard since listening to a band that recorded a demo through a Behringer mixer.

Are you using the Rosetta only for clocking? or are you using its DA section for monitoring, insread of the Digi's main outs?

The Rosetta is my favorite piece of gear in my studio, and it definitely takes the 002 into "professional land". Owning the Rosetta is not overkill, most probably in your situation running at 96k is overkill. If you are not 100% meticulous about every step of the process being perfect, then operating at such a high resolution is probably pointless.
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  #5  
Old 02-01-2008, 08:56 AM
stoneinapond stoneinapond is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Quote:
To me, tracking and mixing at 96k is the part that is overkill. What are you running for monitors, and is your listening environment professionally designed and treated? Who masters your tracks? If it is not being mastered at a world class facility, then chances are, doing you projects at 96k is a bit overkill.

Are you using the Rosetta for your inputs leading into Pro Tools, or your 002's mic pre's? If you are using the 002 mic pre's then there is reason number 10 that 96k is overkill. They are the noisiest pre's i have heard since listening to a band that recorded a demo through a Behringer mixer.

Are you using the Rosetta only for clocking? or are you using its DA section for monitoring, insread of the Digi's main outs?

The Rosetta is my favorite piece of gear in my studio, and it definitely takes the 002 into "professional land". Owning the Rosetta is not overkill, most probably in your situation running at 96k is overkill. If you are not 100% meticulous about every step of the process being perfect, then operating at such a high resolution is probably pointless.
While you make several good points, the issue of eight-channels of 96kHz using an external converter is mute. It cannot be done.

So the question remains, will the original poster get benefits at lower sample rates?

The answer to that is yes (as a personal opinion), and of course one would use it as the primary input to Pro Tools, requiring some good external preamps to get the full benefit.

The poster also mentioned that he wanted to work out of the box. Does that mean an external mixer or summing amplifier? In either case, given that the external electronic are up to it, monitoring would be improved via the Rosetta.

Even without external mixing, monitoring directly via the Rosetta is an obvious choice.
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:56 PM
cprescott1972 cprescott1972 is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Thanks to all for the responses. It seems that the initial answer to my question is "no". My digi002 can't record 8 tracks at 96k simultaneously. Causing me to work at 44.1 or 48. So...

Then the question is raised about whether it's acceptable to work at 48 and below. And more specifically if 48k makes sense at all since it is barely above 44.1 and then requires the dithering down. Maybe that's a different topic all together.

Secondly, if the improvement of the Rosetta 800 makes sense with its high price. I currently use a Rosetta A/D 2 channel converter so will this trade up really make a difference? I guess I need to hear a comparison and then decide. I don't think I have ever really heard the difference and been aware so that may be a first step. Anyone know of any side by side examples on the forums using WAVs etc. ?

Finally, would it be more cost effective to upgrade the Digi with the Black Lion Mod for example and use it's improved conversion. I think this runs about $600...

Thanks for any insight.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2008, 01:41 PM
kooz kooz is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

To answer your question as to whether it's acceptable to work at standard sampling rates (44.1k and 48k), you have to evaluate whether the work you're doing will ever be considered substandard because of that.
I personally don't see the need to use 2X and 4X sample rates: eventhough research suggests we are capable of perceiving that frequency range, I know most of us don't.

try thinking about it this way: Have you ever thought to yourself that you hate the lack of information in octave 11 (20kHz-40kHz) of your favourite recording? or that it was harsh, unnatural, thin, whatever? Now extend that question to the 12th octave(40-80 kHz)...ludicrous, isn't it? The air up there is pretty thin.

and finally, if you can justify the expense by passing it on to your clients, then go for it. Hell, go HD if that's the case. If not, you're fine with what you've got...and maybe, possibly a little bit better with the BLA mod.

You are recording at 24 bit depth, correct? That's the biggest issue, IMO.
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2008, 08:23 AM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
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Default Re: 8 tracks of digital input at 96k possible?

Quote:

Secondly, if the improvement of the Rosetta 800 makes sense with its high price. I currently use a Rosetta A/D 2 channel converter so will this trade up really make a difference? I guess I need to hear a comparison and then decide. I don't think I have ever really heard the difference and been aware so that may be a first step. Anyone know of any side by side examples on the forums using WAVs etc. ?

Finally, would it be more cost effective to upgrade the Digi with the Black Lion Mod for example and use it's improved conversion. I think this runs about $600...

Thanks for any insight.
I chose the BLA mod after owning a Rosetta 800. The two are so close I'd qualify them not as superior/inferior but rather as "barely different", or "who cares". And finally, I'm not going to HD anytime soon so I don't need a piece of kit like the Rosetta. But I'm not scoring films for Miramax, either.

The description "cost effective" is a bit understated, IMO.
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