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  #1  
Old 09-08-2017, 11:38 AM
IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES is offline
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Default Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Hello everyone,

First off, my system is as follows:
imac late 2013 - Intel i5 3.2Ghz, 32gb ram, NVIDIA GeForce GT 755m 1gb vram OS X 10.10.5
Pro tools HD 11.3.2. Avid HD Omni interface. Magma thunderbolt Chassis

If I left anything out please let me know!

I am working in promos, and we do primarily 20 and 30 second spots. The editors here are not into using 2-pops and tail pops, so i can't even use that system to ensure a sync which really stinks for me because whenever I bounce a track, the bounce is about a frame early. It's the correct length of time, and it's in the correct place on the timeline, but all of the waveform is ahead by one frame.

Low latency monitoring is off. Delay compensation is on. I removed the only two plugins in this particular spot (izotope insight and ozone 7 vintage limiter) and the problem remains.

I created a new test session and made 4 mono and 4 stereo tracks, each with a pop exactly 5 seconds apart. I then set up my busses and routing as I would in a promo session and did a test bounce. No issue.

Any idea what could be causing this? I honestly don't know how to troubleshoot this, and I am puzzled as to how a bounce could arrive early in the timeline.

I attached a screenshot: the blue tracks are what's in my mix/timeline. The red, purple and green tracks are my bounces. The red is the first bounce which is where the problem started. The purple track is a bounce with no plugins. The green track is a real-time bounce with no plugins.

I hope this is some little setting I'm overlooking. As you can see, this mix is so simple that I have it all routed to a single mix bus.

Obviously this could be circumvented by using 2-pops and tail-pops and delivering that way, but the editors will have none of that.

Any help will be eternally appreciated. Thanks!

EDIT: here is a link to better resolution image: https://anonimage.net/image/IFQXP54thg

EDIT #2: here is a screenshot of more bounces: https://anonimage.net/image/SoToES4Lgc ---Each time I bounced the mix, i solo'd it and bounced it again, and each time, it (magically?) gets earlier in the timeline, losing time at the front and adding time at the back.
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-09-08 at 10.35.16 AM.jpg (49.2 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES; 09-08-2017 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Picture was potato'd - provided better image
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2017, 02:54 AM
ViTheVault ViTheVault is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Did you check the manual compensation may be there is a negative one on the aux...
In the mix window cmd+click to read your delays...

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2017, 11:02 PM
coaxmw coaxmw is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Does it happen when doing an offline bounce and realtime or only in 1 situation? I print internally so don't deal with bounces much but was curious if might be a buffer or disk issue.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2017, 03:39 PM
Nick Camaron Nick Camaron is offline
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Default Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

I can't see your routing in your screenshots. I've had this with bus-bussing stem and simultaneous full mix recording structures. This doesn't seem to be working so I get my stems printed first and afterwards combine them via offline bounce to get the full mix.
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  #5  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:10 PM
IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViTheVault View Post
Did you check the manual compensation may be there is a negative one on the aux...
In the mix window cmd+click to read your delays...

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
Checked that, no negative values anywhere.
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:11 PM
IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Camaron View Post
I can't see your routing in your screenshots. I've had this with bus-bussing stem and simultaneous full mix recording structures. This doesn't seem to be working so I get my stems printed first and afterwards combine them via offline bounce to get the full mix.
Unfortunately it seems the only fix I can figure out is to print every single stem offline, then print a final mix--all manually. I work in promos and do 10-20 mixes a day. This is an absolute nightmare, and I know if I called Avid they would just say it's because I'm not spending $2700/yr for PT12. AArrrhrghhh
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:21 AM
mgoorevich's Avatar
mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES View Post
I'm not spending $2700/yr for PT12. AArrrhrghhh
Nobody is spending $2700 but maximum $1500 or $900 if upgrading or $300 an year.
Google the real prices, There are too many places you can get PT HD for these prices so I don't want to be biased.

And BTW, I doubt that the upgrade will fix your problem. You are doing something wrong as lots of people here are working with hundreds of tracks without issues.
We need more info in order to help you.

What is your clock and sync reference? Do you work with vid reference input getting triple level sync? Can you screen shot your session setup window?
Do you work with DNxHD video or H264? What if you remove all the plugins?
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Michael Goorevich

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www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2019.10 Ultimate ● macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
MacPro 2 x 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon ● 24 GB RAM
Avid HD I/O ● Sync HD ● AJA LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24

Last edited by mgoorevich; 09-12-2017 at 12:32 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2017, 03:07 AM
Nick Camaron Nick Camaron is offline
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Default Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES View Post
Unfortunately it seems the only fix I can figure out is to print every single stem offline, then print a final mix--all manually. I work in promos and do 10-20 mixes a day. This is an absolute nightmare, and I know if I called Avid they would just say it's because I'm not spending $2700/yr for PT12. AArrrhrghhh


in pt 12 it won't be different. You probably have to rethink your bussing setup & workflow I'm afraid.

Last edited by Nick Camaron; 09-12-2017 at 03:47 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:25 AM
IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
Nobody is spending $2700 but maximum $1500 or $900 if upgrading or $300 an year.
Google the real prices, There are too many places you can get PT HD for these prices so I don't want to be biased.

And BTW, I doubt that the upgrade will fix your problem. You are doing something wrong as lots of people here are working with hundreds of tracks without issues.
We need more info in order to help you.

What is your clock and sync reference? Do you work with vid reference input getting triple level sync? Can you screen shot your session setup window?
Do you work with DNxHD video or H264? What if you remove all the plugins?
That's good to know. I saw that price on the avid site and just about lost it...That was more a jab at ALL my combined tech support experience over the years rather than just Avid ("Is your OS up to date??")

I am using the internal clock of the HD Omni. I do not have video reference input, I am using quicktime files, pro res 422. Neither making all plugins inactive nor removing all plugins changes anything. Delay compensation off/on changes nothing.


HOWEVER, Everything is back in place if I just run my sessions off of an external thunderbolt drive. Running them off the machine's internal SSD seems to be causing problems. Lesson learned.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:31 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: Very Odd Sync issue, HD 11.3.2 - Bounces Arrive early?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDONTLIKEUSERNAMES View Post

HOWEVER, Everything is back in place if I just run my sessions off of an external thunderbolt drive. Running them off the machine's internal SSD seems to be causing problems. Lesson learned.
Its extremely important to run video, audio and system each on separate drive.
__________________
Michael Goorevich

Sound Designer
/ mixer
www.goorevich.com

PT HD⎪N v2019.10 Ultimate ● macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
MacPro 2 x 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon ● 24 GB RAM
Avid HD I/O ● Sync HD ● AJA LHi referenced by AJA GEN10 ● D-Command ES24
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