Levels for Canadian Commercials?

[jeremiahmoore]

Hi-

I'm based in the US but will be mixing some commercials for broadcast in Canada. (primarily, perhaps only, in the atlantic provinces.)

Is anyone aware of any level specs I need to be aware of? Loudness legislation etc?

-jeremiah

[garnoil]

Ask the broadcaster for their tech specs, it is the only way.

[drenkrom]

Most specs for Canadian broadcasters are very similar to the specs of US broadcasters. Ask the specs from the broadcasters, but there isn't any legislation that would affect your output compared to a US broadcast.

Many broadcasters in Canada are still dealing with analog transmission setups, so some specs are still VU-based, while others are solely dBFS-based. You'll have to check specifically, I think.

IHTH

[jeremiahmoore]

@garnoil - it's a boutique production house. The kind of client who may not be up on technical issues, but rather would rely on the "experts" to tell them what the spec should be. Not sure who the broadcaster would be - It's a spot, and would likely carry on any and all broadcasters in the region.

I understand there's been some Canadian public debate about the loudness of commercials, so thought it worth asking in case it was turning into regulation.

I'll plan on -10dB peaks / -20dBFS = 0VU and be ready to hit a LKFS number if needed. + web mix.

thanks -

-jeremiah

[The golfer]

I do a lot of animation shows for the canadian market, most of them with multiple broadcasters and I always mix at -10dBFSpeaks / -20dBFS = 0VU and never had a QC failure, but commercials are louder so either they use different specs or mixers don't care. Don't you have the same problem in the U.S. too?

[garnoil]

Originally Posted by jeremiahmoore

@garnoil - it's a boutique production house. The kind of client who may not be up on technical issues, but rather would rely on the "experts" to tell them what the spec should be. Not sure who the broadcaster would be - It's a spot, and would likely carry on any and all broadcasters in the region.

I understand there's been some Canadian public debate about the loudness of commercials, so thought it worth asking in case it was turning into regulation.

I'll plan on -10dB peaks / -20dBFS = 0VU and be ready to hit a LKFS number if needed. + web mix.

thanks -

-jeremiah

Finally I have a night off...so I've had a few:)))) I am Canadian and I do tons of work of Canada (most of my work is Canadian first and then it may go internationally). Having said that, it is truly about who the broadcaster is. It is possible that you (or even the people producing the video) do not yet know who the broadcaster will be, but, you should ASK. It is simple: If you are delivering for CBC (which is the Canadian National Broadcaster) they would want an "X" specification, if you are delivering for CTV (which is an across Canada and probably the biggest broadcaster) they would want a "Y" specification, if you are delivering to a "local broadcaster" then may want a "W" specification or most likely they don not even care...they will play anything (even horribly distorted stuff). If your commercial is prime time, then the broadcaster will ask for "Q" specifications but if it is something that plays at 4 AM during a 5 dollar infomercial then they may not care at all.

So when I said ask the broadcaster I was not kidding. Then there are all the digital channels that simple exists as ...content (that no one really watches or cares for) no mater what. Even withing the major broadcasters, and even withing the so called "age of dialnorm and equality for all" it is simply NOT TRUE. The "Whether Chanel" in Toronto through Rogers is channel 23 plays about 15 db louder than any other channel (including CNN, CBC, FOX etc.). So the whether channel whichI think is part of the Plemorex broadcaster plays much, much louder (and horribly compressed in my opinion) than anything else. There are other broadcasters that are part of much bigger groups and yet, they will play "anything" from the cheapest home made commercial about some guy selling used cars to major market tv adds.

In closing I would say...ask the broadcaster, I have been there (I am always there) and I have done that...I am am still doing it. I just delivered a tv series (no real tech specs) and 4 commercials for a wood flooring company, so you want to know the spec they told me when I asked?...here it is....16 bit, 48K stereo!:)))))))) I love TV!

[jeremiahmoore]

Ha! So I will definitely mix it for 16bit 48K output

Seriously, thanks for all the info Garnoil - I will indeed ask and see what I learn.

As for commercial levels in the states, it's much the same: all over the map. The big budget national stuff tends to sound good, and I think it's as much as anything the networks taking pains to ensure they do since it's their revenue stream. The smaller stuff... it's all over the map in terms of quality, loudness, etc.

-jeremiah

[kd_special]

I have mixed many Canadian commercials and TV shows. stay around -10 and your good. We dont have any loudness specs yet. I hope that they figure those out soon but that will depend on the broadcaster getting their stuff together and deciding on something. So thats will be a while still.

Al the shows I do are always at -10 , Live action, or animation. For CBC and CTV.

Any commercials I used to do -10 as well. but noticed other engineers doing -8 and so I started doing that about a year ago and have never gotten anything back.

I had to do a revision for another engineer one time on a 5.1 Mix and his center channel was hitting -3 with the VO which I was pretty surprised at but I saw the same revision I did on TV and it sounded great with his settings.

kd

[jeremiahmoore]

Thanks for the info all -

-jeremiah

[Sonny Keyes]

Originally Posted by kd_special

I have mixed many Canadian commercials and TV shows....Any commercials I used to do -10 as well. but noticed other engineers doing -8 and so I started doing that about a year ago and have never gotten anything back.

I do nothing but commercials for Canada, and although I'm told the spec is -10 I set my L2 to -7 and never got anything back. My spots sound the same as everyone else's (except better ) on air.

Sonny Keyes
Ricochet Audio
Toronto