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Old 05-08-2002, 09:37 AM
Styles Bitchly Styles Bitchly is offline
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Default Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

Hey Folks,

I created a short (8 sec.) groove to be looped for a web site. I set markers in PTLE to bounce to disk (I listened to it loop in PTLE and it looped back upon itself with no glitches) and saved it out as an AIFF, 16 bit, 44.1. Then I imported the file into T-Racks, set it to loop playback and again it sounded perfect. Then I mastered it - the same way I've done a thousand times - and when I play it back looped there is a glitch where it jumps back to the beginning. It doesn't only do this in T-Racks, but also in quicktime, and i-tunes. Does anybody have an idea what could be causing this? Please advise.
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Old 05-08-2002, 10:29 AM
John H John H is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

None of apple's software is capable of looping anything correctly, the quicktime plug-in that handles the audio in web browsers is just as hopeless. There is a way round it though. Encode it as a stereo or mono (not joint stereo) mp3, no ID tags or any extra data other than the raw mp3 itself, then rename it to .swa and embed it in your HTML as shockwave audio. flash and shockwave CAN loop playback with no problems, If you're having trouble with the code just search for a HTML tutorial and you'll find out how to embed it correctly.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-08-2002, 10:44 AM
Styles Bitchly Styles Bitchly is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

John, thanks for the info, but I think I may have misled you concerning my problem. I'm not actually creating the web site, or adding the music to it, I'm just producing the tunes. I've done this with loops a hundred times and had no glitches with the final product - until now. The only thing I did differently was to record a drum sample into PTLE with a tempo that didn't match the preset 120 bpm that PTLE creates at start-up. But, all my tracks are audio - no midi - and I've set the markers to loop at the exact end and beginning, and the loop sounds great. This is the only difference in my method of operation, but I don't understand how it could affect the outcome. Any other ideas?
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:23 AM
RealNet RealNet is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

If I understood well, the problem first occured in T-Racks after mastering, not after encoding the loop.
You say you mastered everything right but I doubt T-Racks has a sufficiently precise display and you sufficiently precise eyes ( [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) to see that at the end or at the beginning of the loop your mastering didn't generate a click... (after EQ for example)

I've found a very practical way to achieve almost ALL loops without any post-mastering or encoding-related clicks.
Simply fade the very beginning of the loop in (and the very end out) for a small amout of samples (e.g. 25 to 40 samples at a 44,1 res.). It will be impossible to hear the alteration as human ear is too slow to "catch" it.
It certainly has the great interest that a heavy mastering like boosted compressor or odd encoding cannot affect it.
For my part there is no better way to achieve a loop.
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:41 AM
Styles Bitchly Styles Bitchly is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

Realnet,

Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try. I've never had to do anything like this before, but I've always used midi drums in the past, so I'm guessing this has something to do with the problem. Again, thanks for your help.
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Old 05-09-2002, 08:15 AM
SoundWrangler SoundWrangler is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

Don't use MP3 for loops. MP3 encoding will ALWAYS create some blank data at beginning & end of file (which can be seen when you import these files into Peak, etc.) & this will hiccup your loop. Your alternatives:
1) use compressed AIF format (IMA 4:1), grit your teeth & knock it to 22K (give it a little presence boost at 9-10K first; some batch conversion programs do this for you) & if necessary go mono.
2) If this is for a Flash author, give him the audio full-res (AIF or WAV)... from what I HEAR, when Flash itself does the final audio compression (although worse than dedicated audio progr, such as Peak or WaveLab-Win) the loops won't hiccup. Watch out, though, their default bit rates for audio are brutally low! (BTW, Flash can also "stream" continuous audio, so IF bandwidth permits you wouldn't necessarily have to loop at all.)
3) As John H points out QT Player et al cannot seamless loop files. Use a dedicated audio program like Peak to check the looped file. Very high ratios of compression sometimes increase my batting average with difficult background loops. Also, beware of active delays&reverbs when you bounce - if the tail of these from one loop repetition is overlapping the beginning of the next, in PT you're hearing an overlap that won't make it into the bounced file. In these cases, duplicate the Region, then create the loop based on the 2nd half of the bounced file (which has the reverb/delay "tail" overlapping its beginning) in Peak (or Sound Edit, if you have a copy of that hanging around) or in Pro Tools itself (with no FX).
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Old 05-10-2002, 12:34 AM
AdamF AdamF is offline
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Default Re: Problem Creating Loop for Web Site - Help!

There is a great article in the new Electronic Musician about putting looped audio in Flash for the web. Really in depth, and informative.
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