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  #1  
Old 01-20-2014, 02:49 PM
pasanta pasanta is offline
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Default 10HD CPU difference

I'm searching for other posts that might offer some info. But I just upgraded from PT10 to PT10HD as part of the move to PT11. I did the HD upgrade because I was using CPTK. So as I wait on some plugs to be AAX, I'm using PT10 part of the time. I also changed out my Mac Pro from a 2006 8-core to a 2012 12-core. New drives; newly formatted and everything installed fresh.

I thought it was a good time to upgrade because I was in between work with time to troubleshoot or migrate. However, as soon as I got everything going I found out a client needs some alternate mixes made of previous sessions. So I thought "no problem", I don't have everything installed but I have everything used in those sessions installed. I'll just load those up and print them before moving on with installs.

This setup will barley run what the previous rig wasn't even straining to do. The sessions have 1 instance of Ivory and a few also have an instance of Xpand. Otherwise it's pretty normal plug usage. Some sessions have no VI's at all and yet they all hit 75-85% on the usage meter. I've got the processors set to 11 (although there's an option to go to 24). Other specifics are OSX 10.8.5, 12 GB RAM, 002 rack and the usual system settings. I made sure I downloaded new versions of everything so to have current approved versions. I haven't really tried PT 11 since it would automatically be less CPU since plugins would be missing until I can get AAX versions.

My assumption is that HD is more CPU hungry than non-HD was. Is this true? Any suggestions? I'm literally having to print tracks enough to free up power to play the sessions. And yet, these were all created and ran with room to spare on my previous rig. I don't know what CPU usage they used on that rig.....I never needed to. In fact, I ran WAY larger sessions that these on the previous rig.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:46 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 10HD CPU difference

HD is not any worse than standard for running plugins.

When you say "barely run" what exactly is the symptom? Especially what DAE errors?

Rule number one is change one thing at a time and check it works before doing the next thing. You could have started by just testing your old install with a HD license asset and moved on from there. You may have been able to clone the old drive over to the new Mac and tested with that, before starting a clean install. Do you still have that old Mac or old disk, if so you could try booting that on the new Mac as a test?

What version of Pro Tools 10?

How did you upgrade? I hope you did a complete new full OS X 10.8.5 install on that 12 core Mac Pro -- not an in-situ upgrade, and you hopefully did not use the system migration assistant to move any apps over to it? And then installed third party plugins (what ones and what versions? -- are they all up to date/supposed to be compatible with your Pro Tools and OS X version?). OS X 10.8.5 should be fine, *if* you did a full clean install, if not then you may end up doing that.

So I assume you re not necessarily running the same plugin versions as before. But are you even running the same formats RTAS vs. AAX... e.g. you didn't install any AAX-32 versions of plugins that were not here before?

Is the new system fully optimized, disabled WiFi, disabled bluetooth, disabled spotlight indexing (on all drive not just the dedicated audio/session drive), removed any antivirus software, etc. Do every last recommended optimization no matter how silly seeming or inconvenient, you can always back some of them out later when things are working.

As always suspect third party plugins first, try removing all those plugin files from the RTAS and AAX plugin folder and testing what happens.

Also note other users on DUC at times complaining about Ivory performance issues, search for those posts.

What are all the playback engine settings (post a screen shot). What there changed from the other computer?

Disable ignore errors if it is checked, what DAE errors do you get?

Your CPU=11 is a great starting point, and also set 99%. If running VIs start with the IO buffer at 512 or 1024. And get the system stable before trying smaller sizes.

What are all the disk drives make/model/rpm installed in the new Mac Pro? Which one is the dedicated audio/session drive? All that info is in the About this Mac/System Information utility.

On which drive are the VI samples installed?

And give up looking at CPU meters, they are unlikely to help. Focus on fist on making sure getting everything is properly is set up, and troubleshooting any third plugins as possible causes.
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:43 PM
pasanta pasanta is offline
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Default Re: 10HD CPU difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
HD is not any worse than standard for running plugins.

When you say "barely run" what exactly is the symptom? Especially what DAE errors?
There are no dae errors, at least the ones that throw up a numbered warning, other than the standard "run out of power" warning. But more frequently I just get glitchy audio; like a buffer setting too low...although it's at 1024.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Rule number one is change one thing at a time and check it works before doing the next thing. You could have started by just testing your old install with a HD license asset and moved on from there. You may have been able to clone the old drive over to the new Mac and tested with that, before starting a clean install. Do you still have that old Mac or old disk, if so you could try booting that on the new Mac as a test?
I still have that drive in tact; I'll give it a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
What version of Pro Tools 10?
10.3.8 HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
How did you upgrade? I hope you did a complete new full OS X 10.8.5 install on that 12 core Mac Pro -- not an in-situ upgrade, and you hopefully did not use the system migration assistant to move any apps over to it? And then installed third party plugins (what ones and what versions? -- are they all up to date/supposed to be compatible with your Pro Tools and OS X version?). OS X 10.8.5 should be fine, *if* you did a full clean install, if not then you may end up doing that.
I did a completely fresh install. The computer came with 10.8.5 so i didn't reinstall that. Since the computer came from Apple, I assume there's no difference in what I would have installed fresh myself. All other installs were totally downloaded from the web so i could verify they were current and compatible. Nothing was migrated from the previous drive. I really wanted to start as clean as possible. At this point I've not installed a huge load of third party plugs; a few Waves, Slate, VCC, VTM and VBC, Altiverb, Ozone, Ivory and Xpand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
So I assume you re not necessarily running the same plugin versions as before. But are you even running the same formats RTAS vs. AAX... e.g. you didn't install any AAX-32 versions of plugins that were not here before?
I was pretty far behind. So I had very little running as AAX on my previous system. Looking in my system, it looks like much of the Avid stuff is now AAX and I'm not sure how much of it was previously. Beyond that, Melodyne, Auto-Tune, Slate VBC, and Trigger are the only third party AAX plugs I see. I'm pretty sure those were not AAX in my previous system, so thst might be something to look at. (Although I'm going to take AT out anyhow and stop using it as it's now useless to me.......see my other thread in the AAX plugs section)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Is the new system fully optimized, disabled WiFi, disabled bluetooth, disabled spotlight indexing (on all drive not just the dedicated audio/session drive), removed any antivirus software, etc. Do every last recommended optimization no matter how silly seeming or inconvenient, you can always back some of them out later when things are working.
Yes; with the exception of bluetooth because of the Apple mouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
As always suspect third party plugins first, try removing all those plugin files from the RTAS and AAX plugin folder and testing what happens.
That's my next try. However, while it might lead me to a specific culprit, it till leaves me with the difference of that culprit not having been a culprit previously, other than I may now have a more recent release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Also note other users on DUC at times complaining about Ivory performance issues, search for those posts.
I guess I need to search further. I didn't see those. However, simply removing Ivory doesn't lower the session CPU by a huge margin and again, it wasn't previously as issue as I had many sessions with Reason and Kontakt running also. Sorry to keep pointing that out.......bear with me, I'm just disappointed. I really didn't expect a difference between HD and non-HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
What are all the playback engine settings (post a screen shot). What there changed from the other computer?
Mostly the big change was going from 8 cores (set to use 7) to 12 (set to use 11). Screenshot attached to this post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Your CPU=11 is a great starting point, and also set 99%. If running VIs start with the IO buffer at 512 or 1024. And get the system stable before trying smaller sizes.
I'm only trying to play existing session at this point. I haven't needed to drop the buffer low enough to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
What are all the disk drives make/model/rpm installed in the new Mac Pro? Which one is the dedicated audio/session drive? All that info is in the About this Mac/System Information utility.
The drives are all internal.....system drive is an OWC Mercury SSD. The audio drive, VI drive and extra system drive (with OSX 10.9 and PT 11) are all Western Digital 7200RPMs. The audio drive has been formatted and all the audio moved from backup onto it. The secondary system drive has been formatted and Mavericks installed fresh. The VI drive has not been changed since it was previously in the former computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
On which drive are the VI samples installed?
They have they're own dedicated drive.
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:10 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 10HD CPU difference

Great, thanks for the clear info.

Yes if the Mac Pro came from apple with 10.8.5 on it you are set. Should be a fine install.

Certainly uncheck ignore errors see what exact DAE errors get thrown.

Just going from RTAS to AAX-32 for some of those plugins is a big change, a very significant rewrite that could easily introduce problems.

I'm not sure what I'd do first.....either...

Boot the old system and test that is OK. (if it is not then its much more of headscratcher).

or

Start by moving aside all the third party plugin files from both the RTAS and AAX folders and see if you can run a large session of just standard Avid plugs.

I'm lazy, so I'd probalby just do the easiest first.
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2014, 10:10 AM
pasanta pasanta is offline
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Default Re: 10HD CPU difference

Here's an update. I removed all third party AAX plugs and let them go back to just RTAS. This helped a bit. But not totally. And I'm getting high CPU on sessions that have no VI's; not just the initial ones I had in the beginning of this thread using Ivory. So I can't put my finger on any exact AAX culprit. Removing all third party RTAS plugs would certainly make the sessions run.....but so what? They would essentially stop being previous sessions. I guess as a test, I could make a session of enough Avid plugs to start hitting the same CPU usage. But again, these sessions were fine before upgrading from 9/10 w/CPTK to 10HD/11HD.

I un-checked the box for ignore errors. With it unchecked I get an immediate error that stops playback and throws up the error -6101. The last time I had trouble like this was in the days of the old answerbase on the website. So I'm looking for where to find out what that error means, but haven't found it yet.

If I go back to my previous 8 core Mac Pro, the ilok asset I have will now run that Pro Tools installation as HD also, won't it? I'd love to be able to go back and run these sessions on non-HD just to see. I'll have lost my CPTK so that's an issue about going backwards. If I knew going to 11 would solve the issue, I wouldn't worry. But until the last few plugs I need to be AAX come out, I can't really make a fair comparison. I did try making a session copy and leaving only plugs that will work in both 10 and 11. I got virtually the same % in both 10 and and 11.......which concerns me.

Oh.....one other thing I tried was switching the audio to the Mac output instead of the 002r since I know the 002r "works" but isn't really "supported". It made no difference.

Last edited by pasanta; 01-27-2014 at 12:04 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:03 PM
pasanta pasanta is offline
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Default Re: 10HD CPU difference

Here's another observation......I mixed a session today. This was one started from scratch in 10HD. It was from 24 bit WAV files I imported into a a new session. Other than the audio files, there was no previous session. I've got 26 tracks of audio; Each audio channel has Slate VCC; drum tracks have Waves SSL, some instrument tracks have Avid EQ7, 2 have Waves VE4 (Neve), 7 vocal tracks that have EQ7 and Waves RenVox. There are 2 reverb buses; Altiverb. Master bus has VCC, Slate VBC and VTM. This is what I call a pretty normal light session. It's been pointed out that the usage meter isn't always a reliable reference. But for the sake of having something to reference....On my previous rig I would expect to see around 30-40% with the 8 cores (set to 7). On this 12 core (set to 11) I'm seeing 65-75%.

This session is running fine. But like I said, it's a light one, at least to me. Comparatively, I've ran HUGE ones. As things are now, there's now way I'd get one of those running.
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