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  #21  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:23 AM
Andrew B75 Andrew B75 is offline
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Default Re; ICON & Such

>So, what you're saying is craete a system that has no competition.
>That way there's no reason to improve, and it keeps prices artificially high.

>Sorry.Makes no sense to me.

Well, that is what Pro Tools is, and this is how they gain large market share. Higher prices also include a perceived quality level for most commercial facilities. People generally think if it costs more, then it must be better. I personally don't think this anymore...but it is a reality and a perception of the buying public.

>The logic that ICONs purpose is to sell TDM systems dosen't add up. A company would go out of >business with that size of a risk. ICON sells on it's own merits. I also believe that since ICON is >selling on it's own merits, then it would sell to those who use other platforms as well.

No they wont go out of business. The ICON was most likely an expensive development, but the insides are sort of hollow. The materials and the 'guts' are not intensive. It's a control surface for the HD systems PERIOD, end of story. Worth the amount it goes for? Questionable. Designed to make Digi profit: YYEEEEESSSS. The ICON presents a clear upgrade path for commercial facilities that are built on the older MIX systems [still many in use today], with a Pro Control surface or whatever. They also offer a more developed control surface for existing HD customers. The Pro Tools DAW is the backbone for this 'virtual' console.

Last I heard it won't work without an HD system [maybe I could be wrong].

Was it made solely to entice people to buy HD systems? No way...that truly would be a dumb idea.

>it would sell to those who use other platforms as well

I can only speak for post related businesses, but I believe this is unlikely. Facilities that have invested extensively in other systems ie. Pyramix or whatever, DD8's...are not going to adapt all this expensive technology to work around a Pro Tools AUX I/O console. It's too awkward, and technically, yes it could be done...reliability???questionable....

They use whatever digital console they have purchased already...as most high end consoles have been upgradable as time goes on anyways...and plus they all use Pro Tools DAWs with them too.

The ICON allows room to purchase more HD systems and ACcel components as are necessary for a Pro Tools workflow.
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2004, 06:02 AM
Drew Mazurek's Avatar
Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

Quote:
Quote:
The key to pro tools holding their position, is the closed loop system they create.

I for one would think it would be a bad business move if they opened stuff up too much. What you would find is customers buying just the bare minimum to be compatible with Pro Tools, and then buying everything else from the next guy.

Eventually it would come down to price, and eventually they would just keep losing sales. I think it would be the slow demise of TDM.

The point of the ICON is to sell TDM systems that back it. Nobody in their right mind would buy the ICON as a console alone....as a digital console.
So, what you're saying is craete a system that has no competition.
That way there's no reason to improve, and it keeps prices artificially high.

Sorry.Makes no sense to me.
canadian commie!!

totally joking.

there are way too many PT specific features in ICON to make work on other platforms IMO.
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2004, 09:09 AM
RobMacki RobMacki is offline
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Default Re: Re; ICON & Such


Quote:
The point of the ICON is to sell TDM systems that back it.
Quote:
Was it made solely to entice people to buy HD systems? No way...that truly would be a dumb idea.

Can you connect these two thoughts for me?
I'm not following.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2004, 09:21 AM
bigbadhenchman bigbadhenchman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

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ICON sells on it's own merits. I also believe that since ICON is selling on it's own merits, then it would sell to those who use other platforms as well.
Exactly my point. And since Digi is first and foremsot a hardware company, I dthink it's kinda dumb to NOT make hardware for other users.
I know they want to rule the world, but it just doesn't make sense to narrow your market down.

Unlesss you think that the quality of your products would never stand up.

I can at least understand the reasoning to lock out other hardware from their software. It forces people to buy their harwdare, and it develeopd a userbase.
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2004, 09:23 AM
bigbadhenchman bigbadhenchman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

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there are way too many PT specific features in ICON to make work on other platforms IMO.
It's a box with faders and buttons that send and receive computer commands. Nothing PT specific about that.
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  #26  
Old 12-10-2004, 10:04 AM
RobMacki RobMacki is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

For Digi to offer D-Control to other platforms would be an abandonment of the ICON system which is D-Control+HDAccel+Interfaces. I doubt they would do that. This is their Flagship. The mother load. The ultimate PT experience. Nirvana! The "dweem with in a dweem" in ITB mixing for PT. The only environment you will ever need. Digi could not sell themselves out. No other flags on their ship. Even though the D-Control could be adapted for other platforms. (with the appropriate code)
But hey, what do I know.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:32 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

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The point of the ICON is to sell TDM systems that back it. Nobody in their right mind would buy the ICON as a console alone....as a digital console.
That is a little over the top IMHO. One can buy about 4 TDM systems for the price of one D-Control. The logic that ICONs purpose is to sell TDM systems dosen't add up. A company would go out of business with that size of a risk. ICON sells on it's own merits. I also believe that since ICON is selling on it's own merits, then it would sell to those who use other platforms as well.
It's not that they're trying to sell one TDM system per Icon. That would be a doomed business plan. But the original point is well taken, namely that the mere existence of the Icon and its installation in a few major studios can empower multitudes of TDM users when it's mix or tracking time. It just adds to making PT the standard and thus each Icon will sell arguably hundreds of TDM systems, if their plan works as planned.

However, I don't think it will. I'm incredulous that the Icon would appeal to more than a very small "I gotta have the latest" big studio market.

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  #28  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:46 PM
RobMacki RobMacki is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

I see your point. Maybe I need to clarify my counterpoint.
I don't see the sense of a company developing a product of $40K+ just to sell one of their existing product lines that can be sold for $10K+. That argument is nonsensical. Now the development of a product that will sell @ $40K+ and requires another $10K+ of additional hardware / software in order for it to operate, is well, very profitable. Dependance is what we are talking about. D-Control is dependent upon HD hardware. But the purpose of ICON (D-Control) to sell HD TDM systems I see at best as being as a Flagship. Ya know, like how Shaq sells jerseys. The TDM sales that are directly linked to an ICON (within the same system, physically linked) would barley keep the lights on at Daly City. But as an endorsement, yes ICON sells TDM systems. If that is the original intent of the post we are talking about then I agree.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2004, 02:20 PM
Andrew B75 Andrew B75 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

>I don't see the sense of a company developing a product of $40K+ just to sell one of their existing >product lines that can be sold for $10K+. That argument is nonsensical

Rob, you are a very silly man. Read between the lines.

The company is selling the image and the prestige that "hey....look, we can imitate what Studer and Sound Tracs are doing" We can sell you a console for cheaper and it will work with Pro Tools.

It also allows room to grow when it's time to buy more Pro Tools. You don't have to buy expensive recorders and playback machines...heck you don't even need a machine room. You could have a machine closet. You don't even need a VDR, you could use MOV.

If you look closely at the ads and look who's buying it. These are mid sized companies that buy gear reflecting their budget. It works for them...works well...makes them compatible with the current standards in their own market...and allows room to grow. It's a sound business plan. I think generally it's a good product...and probably will do OK. If they lose money on it, no big deal...they can make up for it with their MBOXes.

>The only environment you will ever need

I hope you are quoting some marketing blurb, and this isn't truly coming from your thoughts. If it is coming from your head...ohh, boy.

They aren't making it to just sell one. They are pitching a long range plan for upgrades.

>since Digi is first and foremsot a hardware company

I think these outdated models should be re-visited. Digi makes hardware yes...but they are selling a toolset that is both software and hardware. I think you would be surprised to see what kind of revenue Digi pulls in from their MBOX and LE series alone...if you could somehow see those numbers...I don't think I would be far off saying "MY GOD".

>I know they want to rule the world, but it just doesn't make sense to narrow your market down

In the grand scheme of business, Digi is not a gargantuan company. They know they can't rule any world because there is just way too many companies in pro audio. DAWs maybe....but don't get too focused on 1 tool in the pro audio world. I think people sometimes take the tools to do their job, WAY too seriously.

By the way the rule the world campaign was some years ago I believe (I could be a bit off)...and I think it got killed once the workers felt how embarassing it really was, what they were saying.
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2004, 02:36 PM
RobMacki RobMacki is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools

Quote:

Rob, you are a very silly man.
You have no idea.

Quote:

Read between the lines.
Teacher, instruct thyself.
Quote:

>The only environment you will ever need

I hope you are quoting some marketing blurb, and this isn't truly coming from your thoughts. If it is coming from your head...ohh, boy.

Again, instruct thyself. I don't take life that seriously. You must have overlooked the Princess Bride quote. If you read through my post again you may even find some humor.

Quote:

I think you would be surprised to see what kind of revenue Digi pulls in from their MBOX and LE series alone...if you could somehow see those numbers...I don't think I would be far off saying "MY GOD".
Yes. All one has to do is look at Avid stock at the introduction of LE and Mbox to see those numbers. This is no great revelation.

Anything else I missed?
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