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  #131  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:26 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Hello. Digidesign and Avid are working very hard to comply with all aspects of the AAF exchange format. That is open and non proprietary. While Avid is part of the Standards board of the AAF Forum (or whatever it is called), AAF is not proprietary like OMF was.

If in fact they were truly interested in a monopoly, they would be fighting tooth and nail to keep OMF alive. As it stands, they are quite happy to move on to AAF, an open standard. One which all manufacturers can develop and write for.
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  #132  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:49 AM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Where is it? AES31 has is AFAIK a working format. Why not allow access to the version 6 sessions by other companies to make it easier to go back and forth?
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  #133  
Old 07-29-2004, 12:53 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:


Actually. It was digidesign who went back on an agreement with Fairlight to allow direct import and export from fairlight to pro-tools. And they had to remove the option in future sofwtare releases. And it was imoprt export of version 4.3. I had conversations about this with fairlight directly.
The encryption serves one purpose. And that is to create a closed sytem, to prevent crossplatform compatability. Same reason for not having any kind of crossplatform conversion available, like AES31.

Av-transfer allows transfer to and from various formats tpo fairlight, as does the program MediaMagic. Except that with media magic you are again stuck with 5.0 transfers. Which I guarantee Digi will stop supoporting in the Near future. Thus leaving absolutely no way to be cross platform compatible.

In also can't help but think that the $500,- pricetag to unlock the Digitranslator tool built into the current versions of Pro-Tools is another way of discouraging users to have access to it. As it would again allow a much easier cross platform for people not using Protools.
I was not aware that Digi reneged on the fairlight deal- It seems to me a tiny bit surprising since most people just hacked compatibility fro PT 4 sessions - like Akai and Timeline. As to the earlier session formats going unsupported, ProTools 6.4 still supports the v3.2 session format, so I think you are safe for at least the next couple of weeks...

AES 31 I think has been kind of ratified, but I thought that there was going to be a more broad compatibility with AAF (which I thought was going to include the same session compatibility that the AES standard was designed for)

As to the OMF tool functionality- It is a good argument- It should probably just be a part of ProTools as a standard set of functionality.


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  #134  
Old 07-29-2004, 02:32 PM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

I looked into AAF today. It looks interetsting.
I personally don't care which becomes a standard.AAF or AES. As long as it allows for proper cross-platform capabilities. Because I, for one, do not like being forced into using any particular piece of software or equipment
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  #135  
Old 07-29-2004, 03:28 PM
grivel grivel is offline
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>Thing about Open TL is that no other manufacturers support it either- which in essence means it is >the same as a >closed format.

More DAW manufacturers support it than any other ADL file exchange: Pyramix, Nuendo 2, WaveFrame7, Logic Audio ... probably more. The first 3 being geared towards post. They are hardly dead, and OpenTL is used everyday Mr. Mayes.

>1- You may be from Europe

Correct. I have no clue how you guessed that.

>2- You perhaps work in the post sound world there.

Yes

>Fact of matter is, that Digi has encrypted the sessions to stop the advancement of cross platform compatability. >thereby trying to create a monopoly on the audio industry.

You are exactly right Henchman. You hit the nail on the head.

>I am also somewhat sure that it was done to hinder the sessions to be hacked easily.

Hacked? I don't think people are lining up spending all their time to hack into pro tools sessions. Instead of hacking it, why not just buy an MBOX? Seems to me like less time/money and labor.

>It surprises me that Tascam did not incorporate it into the MX2424.

Why? It suprises you that Digi wants to attempt to monopolise the california dubber market? For your info Mayes, the MX-2424 was supposed to be the MMR-24. Digi would not give the ProTools read/write capability to TimeLine, as this would limit it's plug and play use in Hollywood as a dubber. The MX got pushed into the music market. Only now after all this time, are they beginning to be used more in the large california post facilities. Some have them installed, but they don't appear in the numbers the the MM dubbers do. Another factor was the faulty first generation boards that appeard when they first came out, because they were rushed out of manufacturing to meet demand. This gossip spread around Hollywood, and well, once the gossip spreads, thats it. That original problem by the way was solved as they were all recalled and replaced. Now the machine is as reliable as the MM dubbers - hence they are used all over for Live Recording application - a VERY demanding job for reliability. As well as playback for LIVE, also very demanding.

>I think the contention of monopolistic business practices is a bit dramatic, And I do not recall other vendors >openning the doors for their respective file formats to be readable by others

Well, that's why other DAWs have things like OpenTL. To easily exchange between other systems. It works. People use it.

>The encryption serves one purpose. And that is to create a closed sytem, to prevent crossplatform compatability. >Same reason for not having any kind of crossplatform conversion available, like AES31.

YES

>Which I guarantee Digi will stop supoporting in the Near future. Thus leaving absolutely no way to be cross >platform compatible.

Disagree. Digi has no interest in eliminating the old format, as this poses problems for many Pro Tools projets that are archived in the old 5.0 format. This would mean that customers can't retreive their data. I don't see how that would benefit digi.

>If in fact they were truly interested in a monopoly, they would be fighting tooth and nail to keep >OMF alive

They don't need to fight to keep it alive. It will stay alive. OMF has become imprinted in peoples brains, and it's common practice to use.

>since most people just hacked compatibility fro PT 4 sessions - like Akai and Timeline

False here Charles. TimeLine did not HACK into PT4. Legal agreements were put in place and Digi allowed the MMR / MMP to do it, one of the reasons because they [digi] know that the DAW was not reliable enough for 'ONLINE' dubbing [more specifically REPRODUCER] all day long. It [ProTools]was too flaky.

Now that ProTools is a little better and works most of the time, and that companies can rely on it and put up with the little quirks as reproducer, you won't be seeing a box like the MMR made ever again [a plug & play dubber with full front transport controls, buttons, everything that can work like a tape recorder - ie. a Pro Tools recorder and player but a device that doesn't need to be controlled by a computer terminal.] One of the things too is the price...the MMR was so expensive that it was out of project studio reach, so this is OK to digi. And finally the company that made it is gone, that's the main reason really. If they were still around, Hollywood right now would be using the MMR-48.

Just as the new CineFile dubber is going to be VERY high priced. I notice it has Pro Tools read - I don't know about write. This is OK because the price is so high, again out of MID level reach. It's nice to know that a new dubber is coming out. Too bad for the blank face though and no front controls.
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  #136  
Old 07-29-2004, 08:48 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: REPLY TO MAYES AND HENCHMAN

Grivel-

Thanks for your responses-

i would be most interested in having you respond to the other questions I had as well,

Akai did hack the ProTools session format for the DD8 as I recall, mainly because digi seemed to be slow in responding to their requests- In fact It was a somewhat simple thing to figure out. And you are partially correct about the MX2424's acceptance in the film community. They are not at all common in most facilities here.

Now I can understand that It may be an issue with some who are working with the other systems you mentioned, but it is worth considering this to be a regional issue. We here, for better or worse have chosen ProTools to do our work with. Hence, ProTools is the most commonly used device both on Dubbing stages and in Editorial. That is not to say it is the best solution, but it certainly appears to be the one that is expected to have the greatest longitivity.

Now with that said, to imply that you in Europe are more advanced than us here is a difficult thing to defend in my mind- If you would be so kind to further elaborate on how and why this is the case, I would certainly lend an ear- but so far you have not. This sort of reminds of those Bomb Factory posts that used to be so provocative.



Oh yes, and you might extend the courtesy of spelling my name correctly as well.


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