Mastering with Pro Tools

[profdraper]

Hi all, we're a little puzzled about issues relating to bounce to disk vs. export files in Pro Tools, and especially in relation to truncation, dithering and noise shaping. Hoping someone may be able to shed a little light:

For starters – In the macprovideo ProTools 401 training series on mastering, there would appear to be some inconsistencies:

– Video #26 'Limiting with Dithering and Noise Shaping'
At 02:52 Phil firstly uses the example of Maxim to set (16) bit depth, dither and noise shaping for eventual CD mastering.
All good, except that he uses this process to print a file within the existing 24bit /48kHz session (?)

– Video #51'Setting up the Peak Limiter'
Phil returns to this topic once again, but this time using a Sonnox Oxford Limiter to do same.
At 01:34 'bit depth set to desired output' etc, again – 16 bit, dither & noise shaping for CD.

– Video #55 'Final Master of Song 1' (for example).
At 01:28 we again see the 16 bit option for the Limiter, then to be printed on a 'Mastered' track inside a 24/48 session.

– Video #58 'Final Export before Sequencing'
At 00:38 he confirms that the print files are 'at the current sample rate and bit depth of the session' (24/48)
At 00:55, he then goes to the region bin and simply drops these files to disk via 'Export Regions as Files' (shift-command-K)
This then shows the Pro Tools dialogue to set bit depth at 16 and sample rate at 44.1KhZ

Digging a little further: Would appear a very specific Pro Tools thing ... (vs, say Logic, Wavelab etc) see for example, http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun1...es/pt_0610.htm

Talking of dither, here’s another tip for you. If you are going to bounce your mix onto another track (see my article on this in the July 2008 issue of Sound On Sound:http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul0...kshop_0708.htm) and you plan to export the bounced file as a 16-bit file ready for CD mastering, don’t apply dither in your final plug-in chain, as Pro Tools will automatically dither the exported file without asking. If you add a dither plug-in or use the dither feature of your favourite mastering limiter, all you are doing is adding another unnecessary layer of low-level noise (which is all that dither is). It’s a shame that you have no control over what sort of dithering and noise-shaping Digidesign are adding for you at the export stage. Digidesign (or should I say Avid now?), can you please make this dither an option in the ‘Export Selected As Files’ window?

And this is my preferred workflow, print stems or master, then shift-command-K export to disk. However, the Bounce-to-Disk function would appear to be the *only* way to make use of 3rd party 16 bit conversion, dithering/ noise shaping routines such as those offered by iZotope, POWr, Sonnox etc.

In 'Export Selected' however, ProTools automatically takes over these functions (ie, NO user options); see Pro Tools 10 Reference Guide, p. 346 table. This via the use of the Avid Dither plugin (see p. 349 of the Audio Plugins guide), the same as for Audiosuite functions. [... and, there is yet another rave about just which mixer engine plug-in you choose to use for HD but also incorporated in the CPTK. See Pro Tools Reference guide p. 985, dithered mixers etc.]

What a load, eh? ....... Back to the 401 training videos then – it is the ProTools Digirack plug that does the bit depth /dither/noise shaping export job with Export File functions, & NOT the Sonnox Limiter. The only way to make use of the Sonnox dither/bit depth processing would be via Bounce to Disk. Otherwise, you may in fact be dithering and messing with the audio, twice (& again, contrary to best practice).

As above SOS comments then, perhaps a very good idea:
"It’s a shame that you have no control over what sort of dithering and noise-shaping Digidesign are adding for you at the export stage. Digidesign (or should I say Avid now?), can you please make this dither an option in the ‘Export Selected As Files’ window?"

Appreciate any advice. The industry itself, as well as the Pro Tools user guides often appear at odds.

[bacchus40]

i've always used dither on the last plug in.. L2 waves... now Avid's own MAX {surprisingly good i may add!}, but i always go with BOUNCE TO DISK .. always have..

session at 24bit 48kHz, dither down to 16bit 44.1k on bounce to disk

one thing about that article... its talking of pre pro tools 9... released back in 2008... thats a long time ago...
i havent had any issues with bouncing interleaved tracks recently.. doing masters all week...

will look more into the whole dither thing though...

[lberrios1962]

That is why since 1992 I never use Pro Tools for mastering. There are some others DAW's for mastering like Wavelab, Soundblade, Samplitude, Sequoia, Sadie, among others.

[bacchus40]

yah i've mastered in wavelab as well.... that was actually my goto software for
a long time...

[Cosme]

pdraper,

I agree with you. There are some inconsistencies in Phil's instructions in those videos. I have worked with Pro Tools since 2001 and I spotted a few things that were questionable. I also don't like the fact that he does not mention anything about track priority. Track position in the final mix is important in my opinion.
(just adding my 2 cents)