how do you backup your projects

[Matt Chan]

Just wondering how people here are backing up large projects.

We just finished up on a huge feature. 24-bit audio with over a hundred tracks on both dialog/music and fx/foley sides, re-recorded dialog premix, 5.1 music and FX, and a lengthy list of deliverables (ME, DME, TV versions, temp mixes, LCRS versions, etc...). We normally backup to DVD but I've calculated that it will take about 60 DVD-Rs and 120 man hours to get all of that done, checked and verified.

I was considering just copying everything to a large drive and packing that up nice and safe where no one can touch it. Is that considered reliable?

Anyone else using other inexpensive solutions (that don't require us buying a ton of new hardware)?

Matt

[Mubeau]

HI!

That´s a bit difficult, if you don´t want to spend money and want to be "safe".

Check if "data" backups after the final master playouts are part of your contract. Be aware of this, since in case "data backup" is up to you, data loss also will be up to you .... but thats a different story, which of course will be part of your "general company business contract"....
I know YOU know this, but it cant be said too often.... ))

First "Tape": for "big" productions it may be a good idea to do DA88 (or DA98 since you have 24 bits) playouts of "stems" (Dialogue, Sounddesign, Music etc... seperated !!!) of your mixes.... that´s what you often have to deliver for an IT versions anyway (at least here in Europe).
So be clear how long backups should be backuped.

Then, use a DAT - Data tape backup method. It is "slow" but safer than HDs!

Second "HD" (just for your work backup!):
Backup to your backup server (we use 2 mirrored). (All internal drives first LOW LEVEL FORMATED).
Then, do a SECOND (!) backup and place this in another (!) building.
Additionaly: do a backup of your PT session (without sound data) onto CD and enclose this into these 2 backups.
Still HD is not very safe, but if they are stored in a safe, cooled and shielded area it may be Ok for 5 years.

another idea print out your data bits onto paper ))

have a good day (night) ?
cheers,
mubeau

[sleadley]

I had a long discussion with a colleague regards the whole theory of Backups. The first thing to remember is that if it isn't backed up in 2 places it is not backed up. Drives cannot be considered a backup solution for any long term backup, drives contain drivers that can prove incompatible with various versions of Operating systems that render the drive unreadable. Tapes are generally slow and/or costly, DVD R's are slow and low capacity and have a limited life (this has not really been tested in the real world).
Drives and sessions are growing by the day and the time needed to properly and accurately back up the data is getting longer (and you generally cannot charge for this for the real cost of doing it well).
There are technologies in the works that may help in the future but they are still vapourware. like http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000060046265/ also the 1 TB holographic disk looks interesting, but many questions remain.
Once we have a reliable Backup medium then we need software that (like Mezzo) can interrogate a ProTools session to make sure that all the files in the session are backed up and correctly verified. Even an unattended DVD system would do the trick that could create a set of DVD's overnight. (with the Quickscribe technology naming each DVD as it is burned and verified).
But the long and the short if this is.....it ain't easy or nailed yet.
my 2c
Simon L.

[RecRoom]

We're required by the networks to backup our shows to analog 24 track w/ dolby. Yea analog!

[ErikG]

We're required by the networks to backup our shows to analog 24 track w/ dolby. Yea analog!

I don't blame them!

We do harddrive backups of our total work, and then additional AIT and DA88 of finals and stems.

But analog has its advantages!

I mean how long can you read an AIT tape?
The Tascams/Sonys are crappy recorders with alignment issues.

An annalog 2" tape is replayable for a LONG time to come.

[philper]

There isn't a good answer to this other than to be really backed up there need to be multiple
copies of anything you care about, one backup isn't enough. Full DATA backup (AIT), DAxx of stems,
all the various submixes, and multiples of each. No one wants to pay for this. Also, no one wants to
pay for a drive to hold a file-based live recording of 24 bit audio across 20+ tracks either--we get stuck parking these files as well. Our new policy is to tell people that if they don't provide a
drive to move their material onto, then we stop being responsible for that material after 30 days
and are free to nuke the drive for reuse after a few months. The analog multitrack is an interesting idea, but the supply of 2" tape is iffy now, the machines are big, expensive and require real maintenence, the copies are real time and for a 1 hr show there would have to be a reel break. I hope
the networks we work with don't for this!

Philip Perkins

[tj_davies]

We backup with Retrospect onto an external harddrive, as well as 2 sets of DVDs. One stored at the studio and one at a different place, in case of fire, theft etc...

We haven't dealt with a size like the project you are talking about though!

[Matt Chan]

well, it looks like we will be backing up everything once onto a hard drive and then backing up all our printed stems for various versions onto dvds. these printed stems exist in da88 format as deliverables as well. the consequence of the drive failing is that we can't go into our original mix sessions to change anything, but i have been told that we are primarily responsible for the final stems and any such change would have to come from editorial, who has all of their source elements backed up.

thanks for everyone's input.

matt

[CLee]

This is an interesting question. Spinning up a hard disk that has been in storage for a year or two has always been a scary idea.

...would have to come from editorial, who has all of their source elements backed up.

Wonder what they back up on. Video has been dealing with huge data sessions for years, no?

[Matt Chan]

oh sorry i meant sound editorial, not picture...

i believe that for picture, they would have all of their dailies on tapes and keep all of their avid project files but would get rid of their digitized media. they'd have to redigitize if they needed to do anything.