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  #1  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:11 PM
jasonmiller0607 jasonmiller0607 is offline
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Default Delay with busses

Lately I have been recording audio to Pro Tools through aux tracks (preamp > aux track > audio track). This way I can insert plugins "pre tape" and process audio on the way in. Really, it's my virtual way of having a Neve console. The odd thing is, simply routing an aux track to an audio track causes a noticeable delay. On my system, with a hardware buffer at 128 samples, the delay is 206 samples. This with with NO PLUGINS IN THE SESSION. (My system = 8 core Mac Pro, Lynx Aurora 16, Lynx AES card, Pro Tools HD 9.0.2)

Now, I know some plugins will cause a slight delay... maybe a couple samples... but why is there a delay simply by routing audio from an aux track to an audio track?

The extra bizarre thing is that this method of recording is completely supported by AVID. In the ICON training book they mention "Inline Console Mode" which requires you to route audio through an aux track before going to an audio track. I can't imagine AVID would support this concept when it causes such considerable delay.

What gives?

You know... this problem maybe just be solved if we could simply have another section for plugin inserts that are "pre-tape". That would rock my world.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:00 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
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Default Re: Delay with busses

Since there really is no sonic difference between tracks recorded thru plugins, and tracks played back thru the same plugins, I would suggest changing your work flow. Also, if you have ADC turned ON while tracking, as you add any plugins with latency, the software will back everything else up to match(IOW, no DAW will ever make audio playback earlier). That's not a Pro Tools problem, its just physics. With your setup, I can't imagine why it shouldn't run fine at a 64 buffer setting.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:05 AM
jasonmiller0607 jasonmiller0607 is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

The whole point for the workflow is to essentially have the mix on tape. That way when it is time to mix, most everything is already dialed in. Being from Nashville, I'm sure you're hip to that process. I used to record everything pretty much naked... now I much prefer dialing everything in before it is recorded. My workflow is not the problem.

I get what delay compensation does, and it doesn't matter if it's compensating the 1-4 sample delays my plugins cause.

Still doesn't answer why there is such a massive delay when a bus is engaged.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:02 AM
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crizdee crizdee is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmiller0607 View Post
The whole point for the workflow is to essentially have the mix on tape. That way when it is time to mix, most everything is already dialed in. Being from Nashville, I'm sure you're hip to that process. I used to record everything pretty much naked... now I much prefer dialing everything in before it is recorded. My workflow is not the problem.

I get what delay compensation does, and it doesn't matter if it's compensating the 1-4 sample delays my plugins cause.

Still doesn't answer why there is such a massive delay when a bus is engaged.
Hi,

AUX's are not delay bypassed when in record mode, only the audio track is!

You can get away with plugins that have lo latency, most TDM plugins but RTAS plugs on an aux will cause considerable delay.

I don't why you get 206 samples delay in a session with no plugins?? an aux will only produce several samples. I would have to see your session routing to see why its producing 206 samples.


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Old 03-29-2011, 11:11 AM
jasonmiller0607 jasonmiller0607 is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

For the record... I am using Pro Tools HD, but it's NOT a TDM system.

Here is a screenshot of my mix window. One aux track, bussed to one audio track. 206 samples of delay.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6925090/Bussing%20Delay.png
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:21 PM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

That's less latency than us non-HD folk have. More than the TDM people, though. Apparently, HD Native doesn't provide the same low latency as TDM. What's your latency when recording straight into an audio track?
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2011, 12:34 PM
jasonmiller0607 jasonmiller0607 is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

There is no additional latency when routing straight to an audio track, at least, not more than the 30 (or so) samples it takes my converter, plus the 128 sample playback buffer. But that's not really the point. It has nothing to do with my hardware or interface. It's entirely internal.

My question to AVID is simply, why is there a delay when I route and aux track to an audio track? I understand plugins cause delay. The more advanced and hefty the plugin, the more the delay. I totally get all that. But with a bus, I am simply routing audio. I am sure it isn't as easy and math-free as an analog patchbay... but the 206 sample delay is just making no sense.

AVID, being that this is seemingly now my only way of contacting you... feel free to chime in at any time ;-)
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:41 PM
Chris Watkins Chris Watkins is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

Does it change with buffer size?
Try a different driver, the Lynx drivers are known to be the worst ones in existence. They are very stereo centric and PT is very mono centric among a load of sample accuracy issues that have been noted in the last decade.
Anyway; since PT9 allows you to easy change the driver; do that first and see if that effects the issue. Also, from the pic, it almost looks as though it is still compensating for a plug you had in there and it hasn't re-re-set the adc compensation from a plug you had on the aux it thinks you had there or a delay it thinks it needed to "comp" for that it doesn't need to do for any longer.
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:02 PM
jasonmiller0607 jasonmiller0607 is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

It does change when the hardware buffer changes. I don't think it's a diver issue. Sample problem with other interfaces... M-Audio, etc.

RE: the screenshot session... I never inserted a plugin. I made a session, routed the tracks, took a screenshot.

That's my whole point. With no plugins, bussing all by it's itty bitty self causes a delay. I'm just waiting for the big explanation why.

Thanks for all the guesses er'body!
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:08 PM
carlone carlone is offline
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Default Re: Delay with busses

For the record I get 0 delay when routing and audio track to an Aux. This is with an hd native system.

As others have said - I'd look to your drivers and interface.
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