Inner Circle new Handy Drums plug in does not work correctly

[take77]

Hi Kev,

I did setup the plug-in outputs first but can't remember if it was before I created the rest of the channels. I guess if you can see the outputs in the list it doesn't matter.
I know Kontakt requires a restart of PT and the session for the newly assigned outs to show in the list or to work.
But sounds like you read the manual.

I usually set the Kick to st.1 (1-2), snare to st.2 (3-4), hat to st.3 (5-6) etc.
Then I just rename the track with the plug-in on it to "Kick".

If the outputs show in the input>plugin menu the rest of the inputs should receive the selected output.
And as you already know, 1-2 isn't available in the list on the other tracks.
That's why I just name the inst track with the plug-in "Kick" and assign sequentially from there.
Maybe the rest of the sequence relies on that output being first in the sequence? (looks like Tope got it going in a different order)

If you want to keep the clip sequence on a separate track, try creating a MIDI track set to trigger Handy Drums. That way you have 1-2 for the Kick.
Sometimes I'll just drop the clips on the "Kick" track (1-2) and that still triggers the whole kit if I'm doing something quickly.

I forgot to mention I'm on 2022.7 so hopefully there's not an input assignment bug in the PT release/Mac version you are using.

[K Roche]

OK I figured it out and go it working but it is not remotely like what the web site says


First I am using all stereo instrument tracks As suggested on the Goran Grooves web site

But the problem is this apparently Avid version does not work like what the Handy Drums for Pro Tools shows on the web site
First you cannot select any HD plug in output numbers for the input numbers on the stereo instrument track that you put the HD plugin on (because if you select that tracks "plug-in" option the Handy Drums blacked out . which is I assume is defaulted to 1-2

First the output numbers in HD are single numbers (even for stereo instrument tracks) not pairs .
Instead what shows is
st 1 -- st 2 -- st 3-- st 4 --etc

The numbers in Pro Tools input section for the HD plug-in (on stereo tracks ) are Starting with 3-4 and 5-6 etc.

So apparently you have to off-set (increase) the pair numbers in PT


Because to get to work I had to choose

#1 for the Kick ---------------- HD st-2 --- PT 3-4
#2 for the Snare------------------ HD st-3 -- PT 5-6
#3 for the Hats ------------------- HD st-4 --PT 7-8
#4 for Toms ---------------------- HD st-5 -- PT 9-10

Here is screen shot

[Eric Lambert]

It looks like you're sending the individual kit components out of the Handy Drums plugin and into individual Instrument tracks. Wouldn't you rather use Aux tracks for such a thing? This is how I split out multi-output VIs. Maybe Handy operates differently (and sorry if this was already mentioned).

edit: I see that you mentioned trying the main plugin on an Instrument track and then the splits on Aux tracks, and you said that that didn't work, but it absolutely should. I don't understand why the developer recommended Instrument tracks for the splits.

In the person's illustration above they used Audio tracks for the splits, which I don't do but I guess it could work. The thing you need to remember to do is record enable each of those split tracks, otherwise they won't pass audio.

[take77]

Originally Posted by K Roche

First you cannot select any HD plug in output numbers for the input numbers on the stereo instrument track that you put the HD plugin on (because if you select that tracks "plug-in" option the Handy Drums blacked out . which is I assume is defaulted to 1-2

First the output numbers in HD are single numbers (even for stereo instrument tracks) not pairs .
Instead what shows is
st 1 -- st 2 -- st 3-- st 4 --etc

The numbers in Pro Tools input section for the HD plug-in (on stereo tracks ) are Starting with 3-4 and 5-6 etc.

So apparently you have to off-set (increase) the pair numbers in PT


Because to get to work I had to choose

#1 for the Kick ---------------- HD st-2 --- PT 3-4
#2 for the Snare------------------ HD st-3 -- PT 5-6
#3 for the Hats ------------------- HD st-4 --PT 7-8
#4 for Toms ---------------------- HD st-5 -- PT 9-10

VI outs 1 & 2 not being in the list of the *added* tracks or auxes is the usual behavior with all VI's AFAIK. That's why I always keep the kick assigned to (st.1) or (1-2).
By default it's the same track the plug-in is inserted on & the whole kit is automatically assigned that way. I just rename it "Kick" and that becomes synonymous with "HD" or whatever drum VI I'm using.
Then outs 3-4 etc., are available on the newly added track or aux inputs.
From there, I assign the snare to 3-4 and the rest of the kit on up without having to crissXcross or offset the routing.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by take77

VI outs 1 & 2 not being in the list of the added tracks or auxes is the usual behavior with all VI's AFAIK.

Interesting. Actually in Slate drums 1-2 are available for the additional PT tracks As it is in Reason rack ----- but that does not matter because it's not the point.

Just ran some more tests. Have you tried the new AvidHD plug in ? Just wondering if you have it working without having to assign the PT tracks to higher input numbers that the output numbers on the HD GUI ?

Because at least in my downloaded Avid Inner Circle Free version of Handy Drums ) doing as you describe (kick on the instrument track that the HD plug in is on ) I can choose st-1 for the output and signal for the Kick and will work (as you say by default) on track that I put the HD plugin on

However In order to have the Snare signal on the next PT track (Snare track ) I have to choose output st-2 on the HD and then choose inputs 3-4 on the PT channel input (as I noted mis matched numbers ) Because output st-3 will not trigger the snare track with 3-4 as track inputs What it does is trigger 5-6 instead and so on



So in summery yes you can make it work for multi track in PT and you can use aux tracks as well as instrument tracks
And yes you can go sequentially up the numbers on the HD outputs st-1,, st-2,, st-3 (or kick -snare -hats )
But in the PT tracks you have to keep choosing higher number sets of inputs that do not match the output numbers on the HD which for example I do not have to do in the Slate Drums free plugin
The number output on the slate Plug in is the same number as the input on the PT track

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

It looks like you're sending the individual kit components out of the Handy Drums plugin and into individual Instrument tracks. Wouldn't you rather use Aux tracks for such a thing? This is how I split out multi-output VIs. Maybe Handy operates differently (and sorry if this was already mentioned).

edit: I see that you mentioned trying the main plugin on an Instrument track and then the splits on Aux tracks, and you said that that didn't work, but it absolutely should. I don't understand why the developer recommended Instrument tracks for the splits.

In the person's illustration above they used Audio tracks for the splits, which I don't do but I guess it could work. The thing you need to remember to do is record enable each of those split tracks, otherwise they won't pass audio.

If your talking to me then yes, in my screen shot above I am using all instrument tracks because that is what Handy Drums states to use on the web site Personally I don't have a preference either way Instrument tracks or Aux tracks

However I tried Aux tracks agin and they do work (I think I just forgot to highlight the main Instrument track with the HD plugin on it ) as I have "first selected track" as thru put in my midi preferences

Also note with either the all instrument tracks set up or the splits as Aux tracks it is unnecessary to put the tracks into record in order to pass audio,,, unless you were talking only about using audio tracks for the splits ?

Now I tried audio tracks again but they did not work (although I did not put them into Record ) so I will try that tomorrow

And again I do have it working,,, it is just the mismatch numbers selection that seems odd behaivor

[take77]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Just ran some more tests. Have you tried the new AvidHD plug in ? Just wondering if you have it working without having to assign the PT tracks to higher input numbers that the output numbers on the HD GUI ?

Because at least in my downloaded Avid Inner Circle Free version of Handy Drums ) doing as you describe (kick on the instrument track that the HD plug in is on ) I can choose st-1 for the output and signal for the Kick and will work (as you say by default) on track that I put the HD plugin on

However In order to have the Snare signal on the next PT track (Snare track ) I have to choose output st-2 on the HD and then choose inputs 3-4 on the PT channel input (as I noted mis matched numbers ) Because output st-3 will not trigger the snare track with 3-4 as track inputs What it does is trigger 5-6 instead and so on


So in summery yes you can make it work for multi track in PT and you can use aux tracks as well as instrument tracks
And yes you can go sequentially up the numbers on the HD outputs st-1,, st-2,, st-3 (or kick -snare -hats )
But in the PT tracks you have to keep choosing higher number sets of inputs that do not match the output numbers on the HD which for example I do not have to do in the Slate Drums free plugin
The number output on the slate Plug in is the same number as the input on the PT track

In my session the kick is assigned to st.1 the first stereo pair.
Snare is assigned to HD out st.2 and coming in on PT input 3-4 which is the 2nd stereo pair.
HiHat is set to st.3 and coming in on 5-6 the 3rd stereo pair.

Each st.# is a stereo L/R pair that will start with an odd number in the PT drop down:

St.1 = 1-2
St.2 = 3-4
St.3 = 5-6 etc.

I think I see what you mean (or maybe I'm misunderstanding).
The numbering is different because HD is expressing the outputs in stereo pairs and PT is expressing it as individual L/R channels and things just aren't matching visually.

I also see that in SSD (I'm using 5.5) it uses one number to represent a stereo output (e.g., Output #2). Which would match the HD st. numbering sequence.

I couldn't remember what the output availability in PT was when using SSD5.5 is but since I always have the kick set to Output #1, I only see Output #2 thru Output #16 as being available in the input>plug-in output list.
In my sessions SSD Output #1 is always being used by the inst track I have it instantiated on.
I meant to say that's the PT behavior I'm used to seeing and might not be the behavior of every VI.

Thanks again for the letting us know about the new plug-in. I do like the Studio Standard kit and just might purchase the Power Rock kit to support the developer.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Also note with either the all instrument tracks set up or the splits as Aux tracks it is unnecessary to put the tracks into record in order to pass audio,,, unless you were talking only about using audio tracks for the splits ?

Yes, Aux tracks are always active (unless muted or if nothing is routed to them) so they'll always pass audio. I was indeed referring to the use of Audio tracks because someone above had mentioned using them.

I still don't understand how an Instrument track could operate as an Aux -- accepting audio from the output of a plugin on another track -- but if you say it works then it works. I've not put much time into it myself though when I did try it (years ago) it wouldn't pass audio in such a scenario.

Glad you have it passing audio properly.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by take77

In my session the kick is assigned to st.1 the first stereo pair.
Snare is assigned to HD out st.2 and coming in on PT input 3-4 which is the 2nd stereo pair.
HiHat is set to st.3 and coming in on 5-6 the 3rd stereo pair.

Yes the way I now have set it up

Each st.# is a stereo L/R pair that will start with an odd number in the PT drop down:

St.1 = 1-2
St.2 = 3-4
St.3 = 5-6 etc.

Exactly and it is that numerical offset st 2= 3-4 ,,, st 3 = 5-6 that is what trough me at first

I think I see what you mean (or maybe I'm misunderstanding).
The numbering is different because HD is expressing the outputs in stereo pairs and PT is expressing it as individual L/R channels and things just aren't matching visually.

OK I suppose that 2 does not match 3-4 visually BUT that seems a bit oblique ... I would simply express it as not matching numerically - given the 2 is neither 3 or 4 numerically

Interestingly I ran into the same numerical offset problem in trying to get Studio One's Hardware insert plugin to work with My Avid Carbon interface. I had to make the virtual inputs and outputs different (as opposed to the same in PT) which took me a year to figure out

I also see that in SSD (I'm using 5.5) it uses one number to represent a stereo output (e.g., Output #2). Which would match the HD st. numbering sequence.
I couldn't remember what the output availability in PT was when using SSD5.5 is but since I always have the kick set to Output #1, I only see Output #2 thru Output #16 as being available in the input>plug-in output list.
In my sessions SSD Output #1 is always being used by the inst track I have it instantiated on.
I meant to say that's the PT behavior I'm used to seeing and might not be the behavior of every VI.

In my template that I have SSD set up on I actually am using only mono outs from SSD into mono tracks in PT but they do match numerically 17 out from SSD is 17 in PT. And that is what trough me off trying to get HD to work until i figured out the numerical offset needed for HD to work but it's all good now...

Thanks again for the letting us know about the new plug-in. I do like the Studio Standard kit and just might purchase the Power Rock kit to support the developer.

. Yes so far I like the sounds I am hearing but have yet to try it in a mix. cheers

[marianna]

Maybe send Goran Grooves support an email?

[email protected]

Marianna