Waves and Avid

[Josh Voyles]

This is certainly not a gripe thread so please don't take it as that.

However, I feel like I'm in the middle of an epic battle between Waves and Avid.

Avid has the HDX system and Waves has Soundgrid.

I realize Waves has a solution for the HDX system but I really view it more as a work around. It also seems like many manufactures are on-board with AAX DSP anyway.

What do you guys think? Is Waves onto something or is Avid still the answer for DSP processing?

Note--I'm also looking at this from a live sound perspective since I'm considering an S3L or Digico for purchase and I've already invested thousands in Waves.

[JFreak]

S3L uses AAX-DSP so it seems to me that you want to forget about Waves' offerings as you need to grab a bunch of AAX-DSP plugs anyway. I think that at least Avid, Sonnox, and McDSP have their DSP plugs working on both S3L and HDX. Unfortunately I don't own one so I cannot say for sure.

[Josh Voyles]

Originally Posted by JFreak

S3L uses AAX-DSP so it seems to me that you want to forget about Waves' offerings as you need to grab a bunch of AAX-DSP plugs anyway.

I really like my Waves plugins, but I think I could get the job done quite ok with McDSP.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Josh Voyles

I really like my Waves plugins, but I think I could the job done quite ok with McDSP.

I know what you mean. I still have hard time to find a replacement for Waves C6 but I'm one of those people who will never buy Waves' DSP system. It's just so wrong that they let us TDM customers down like that (promised to support all major platforms and they are the only people who don't get it that Avid HDX is a major platform). And I surely hope there will be a day that even Waves gets that it is either Avid DSP or No DSP. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Josh Voyles]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I know what you mean. I still have hard time to find a replacement for Waves C6 but I'm one of those people who will never buy Waves' DSP system. It's just so wrong that they let us TDM customers down like that (promised to support all major platforms and they are the only people who don't get it that Avid HDX is a major platform). And I surely hope there will be a day that even Waves gets that it is either Avid DSP or No DSP. Just my thoughts anyway.

I don't think Soundgrid is a "bad" idea. It gives low latency processing for most other consoles like Yamaha and Soundcraft.

However, I don't see why we can't have AAX DSP plugins unless it truly is a weird code problem with Waves plugs.

McDSP says it's very easy to write the AAX DSP version of the native plugin. Much easier than RTAS to TDM.

Either the Waves code is archaic and complicated, Waves is not being truthful, or McDSP is not being truthful.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Josh Voyles

Either the Waves code is archaic and complicated, Waves is not being truthful, or McDSP is not being truthful.

...or the real reason of Waves desperately trying to make SG happen and therefore cutting Avid users out of their DSP support.

It really just doesn't make any sense to buy Avid HDX system and then a Waves SoundGrid system and have the sound travel from one box to another. The roundtrip latency is higher than simply using Avid HDN@96kHz (which is what I do now).

It's so sad because Digidesign TDM users are what made Waves what it is today. And they turned their back on us.

[Josh Voyles]

Originally Posted by JFreak

...or the real reason of Waves desperately trying to make SG happen and therefore cutting Avid users out of their DSP support.

It really just doesn't make any sense to buy Avid HDX system and then a Waves SoundGrid system and have the sound travel from one box to another. The roundtrip latency is higher than simply using Avid HDN@96kHz (which is what I do now).

It's so sad because Digidesign TDM users are what made Waves what it is today. And they turned their back on us.

I was actually kind of wondering if Waves would release an AAX DSP version on March 1st when everything went Soundgrid. They could still keep a two licensing system and two pricing. It would just be AAX DSP that would be the premium option. Well...that didn't come true.

[Craig F]

I think Waves has been envious of UAD closed system, and their end game us to sell everyone a SoundGrid system when they drop native support. Hence their recent native license is also a SoundGrid license deal

[JFreak]

That would be the day they lose all possible WUP'ers except SG owners

[propower]

Although I am a beta tester for SoundGrid - this is all my personal opinion (and based on nothing but publicly available info) !!

In my opinion -- The notion that Waves is looking to abandon Native for SoundGrid only is just wild speculation.

SoundGrid - is a Mac/Win system that works with every major DAW (EDIT: the words "ever shrinking" should be deleted but I will leave it in just so the thread makes sense -- not just the ever shrinking HDX market). It solves the latency issue in the audio market for everyone from pros to bedroom musicians. It is a system where multiple DAWS can network together and enables Ethernet connectivity/scalability. SG is also open to 3rd parties. It even integrates well with HDX (with an increase in latency of 0.8ms). The "price" for HDX users is a block of at least 16 i/o slots (not actual i/o's) and a DLS (~$2500).

UAD is a brilliant company and the Apollo line is one of the top new audio products we have seen. So SG is in competition with it - great! Certainly the two systems share some ideas but there is plenty that makes them very different. Never having bought into the UA DSP platform myself, the cost of starting from scratch on either one comes out fairly even (interface + DSP + plugins). With Waves making all plugins SG/Native they have lowered the cost barrier for many (especially all of their existing customers) and are just doing what they have done very well over 20 years in the business and the last 5 years especially. Adapt and compete.