Stems equal Final Mix or may be not ..... ?

[FluffyPost]

i know i might be opening up a can of worms here ... but i say bring it ..

i have searched the DUC but have not found the answer i seek ... now i know there are katz out there that have waaaay more knowledge and experience than i do - and it is to you whom i ask and crave knowledge from ....

i have a couple of questions ...

first up lets say:
- my program peak level = -10dbfs my average = -18dbfs
- i'm working in 5.1
- i need to deliver discrete DME stems of the program to the client

1. how do i ensure my work with 100% confidence that my DME delivery stems (once printed in protools) ... when played back and combined / summed - ALL together (again in PT or another system set to unity gain) = my final mix program peak level of -10dbfs

2. where should my stems peak limiter be place. an example of a typical signal path where say 3 or more fx busses may feed the final fx stem master

fx trks1 > aux fx1 sub master > aux fx stem master (where the 3 fx busses come together) > fx stem print trk

should the limiter be on each of the aux fx sub masters or on the aux fx stem master before the print track

3. what should my stems (or sub masters) peak levels equal so that when the DME stems are all combined their sum value does not peak -10dbfs

4. as a rule what should the limiter of each stem be set to ... -15dbfs?

now pls excuse my gain structure incompetence ... i'm essentially self taught and growth is what i crave ... and this is a big question

thanks in advance n cheers

[EarHole]

you can't. You can get close by running each stem through a Brick-wall but during combined peaks you'll go over. You'll need to apply a master Brick-Wall limiter again when re assembled.

[Henchman]

I have made it a practice to mix in such a way, that I don't use a peak limiter for my Full mix stem.
I make sure that all my stem tracks have limiters, and will adjust accordingly if needed.
These then of course feed the Full mix stem.

This way I am assured that no matter what, stems combined = final Mix 100%

[mikevarela]

Earhole,

wondering about 'combined peaks' - having the stems split would yield a zero-conflict in doubling right? I mean that no dx getting in fx, or mx in dx and such forth, each has it's own unique content.

I was wondering about this approach as well.

I've seen it other ways as well, print Comp and stems from the session, without making a comp from the stems.

Just wondering?

[MIKEROPHONICS]

I like Mark's approach and tend to it that way as well (almost).
I mix my final with limited stems, but have the final mix limiter in bypass, but I do confess that when I print the final mix, the final mix limiter does get activated (fear factor).
So my Final mix all but "what I never saw whilst mixing" will be to all intents and purposes the same as putting the splits up.

cheers

[EarHole]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

I like Mark's approach and tend to it that way as well (almost).
I mix my final with limited stems, but have the final mix limiter in bypass, but I do confess that when I print the final mix, the final mix limiter does get activated (fear factor).
So my Final mix all but "what I never saw whilst mixing" will be to all intents and purposes the same as putting the splits up.

cheers

This is pretty much how I do it as well. I put limiters on all of my stem busses which feed my combined mix buss. I then set a limiter with as little threshold as I can get. Basically so it doesn't affect volume at all.

Mark, I've tried your approach but could never get things to stay within spec.
One loud music transition paired with a FX usually pushes it over the line.
How are you dealing with that scenario?

[JKD99]

My method is to put any limiting or compression on the bus masters themselves, that way the stems are "clean" and simply combine to the printmaster.

It's probably a little more work that way, but at least I don't have to worry about getting "the call".

My 2¢

cheers,

Joe

[D'Animation]

I go along the same lines as Mikerophonics...

Slightly off-topic but does anyone else find that the M&E elements on a re-dubbed mix is always way more subdued than your original? Almost like they've just plonked dialog on the ME stem and output even though I know they get all the seperate stems...

[JKD99]

Yes

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by EarHole

This is pretty much how I do it as well. I put limiters on all of my stem busses which feed my combined mix buss. I then set a limiter with as little threshold as I can get. Basically so it doesn't affect volume at all.

Mark, I've tried your approach but could never get things to stay within spec.
One loud music transition paired with a FX usually pushes it over the line.
How are you dealing with that scenario?

Adjust the mix accordingly.
Either on the individual tracks, or on the master stem buss of the offending stems.
A quick nudge down in the limiter threshold can work wonders.