Piano help

[Ted Blaisdell]

Hi,

I work on a Venue at a good sized church. We have a fixed setup with a full band including a big 9ft Yamaha grand piano. I'm curious what other FOH guys are using on piano. Currently we use a pair of Yamahiko transducers, but they really aren't cutting it (IMHO). I've tried various plugins, extreme eq and it still sounds like, well.......not very good. We need to keep the lid closed due to the stage setup.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[emluper]

Ted,

If you have a huge band that you are trying to keep up with, you can try miking, eq, transducers, C414's, blah, blah, blah. Or, you can get Ivory and a Receptor and call it a day. You'll have access to a Bosendorfer, a Steinway, a Yamaha C7 and soon a Fazioli. The congregation will never be able to tell the difference and the rest of the band will thank you for being able to actually HEAR a piano that SOUNDS GOOD. Not one that is the over-compressed, over-EQed thing that you have to give them. Those piano's sound great in a solo or accompaniment setting, however they just don't work well OR sound good with a large contemporary section. If they tell you they see it all the time, tell them the truth. What they are seeing is an illusion. Most acts that carry a large piano carry a digital fake. I believe that as you research this you will find it too be true.

Erik

[Ted Blaisdell]

Ted,

Or, you can get Ivory and a Receptor and call it a day.

Thats interesting. How do you go about getting midi installed on a piano?

Thanks.

[emluper]

Moog makes a retrofit for pianos, Gulbrasen (I think that's how you spell it) had one of the best. Yamaha makes a Grand verion of the Disklavier which has MIDI built in, and there are several digital pianos w/MIDI that come in cases that look like Grands. The point is, if you're dealing with loud stage volume (drums, el gtrs, bass, multiple wedges, etc.) then anything you do to try and mic an actual Grand and make it fit in the mix w/o feedback is going to make the piano sound funky (and not like Herbie Hancock, Stevie Wonder, or Chick Corea). Sometimes it's better to stop fighting physics and bite the bullet.

Good Luck,

Erik

[dstagl]

I got this from my predecessor at my current gig. Take the lid off your piano and dampen the underside with a blanket. Cover the whole thing as much as you can. Stick a 414 over the high strings and the mid strings pointed at the hammers. Then grab a Barcus Berry pickup and attach that for the low end. When you've got everything in place, put your lid back on and leave it closed. I would then EQ each channel for low, mid, or high. We've also used Ivory in addition to this as well.

Dave

[Terry Hilton]

There are many ways and many opinions of how to mic a piano. Play with it. An old rule when people still considered phase at the source was never use more than one mic. Rules are made to be broken but always consider this using more than 1 transducer no matter what the type. Is the lid open, closed or part. If the lid is open using a large diaphram condensor may be all drums if there is a drummer. Sometimes simple is good. 1 mic over the 2nd or 3rd sound hole. The past 2 years or so I have been clamping a VPP88 on the strut. I set the MS width in the medium position. Phase is less of an issue using this method. What works for 1 piano may not be so good for another. This is also true of the player. What is working for 1 player on a piano may not work for another. My advice, play with it untill you come up with something that works for you. Find more than 1 method if you can so you have options with hard or soft players. Have fun doing it

Terry

[Terry Hilton]

Find more than 1 method if you can so you have options with hard or soft players. Have fun doing it

Terry

[/QUOTE]

[gilparente]

I always think 5 times before I have to implement any midi setup into live events. I would look into DPA microphones. The SMK4061 is a great kit with 2 mics and all sorts of mounts. They have a little magnetic mount that you can mount right to the harp or a rubberish boundary mount that you could mount to the lid. In either case you can keep the lid closed if you want. They sound fantastic.

Disclaimer.. I don't have anything to do with DPA mics except for the fact that I reeeeealy like them.

Let me know how it all turns out.

Gil

[meiseman]

Ted,

check out the Helpinstill piano pickup

www.helpinstill.com

it's pretty cool.

use in with a mic or two and you've got the best of both worlds - a good-sounding pick-up to get level and a mic/mics to get a full sound.

[kleefurd]

There are two options that I will use :

1. As mentioned, I will use Ivory and Receptor, and for the touch, which is important to the pianist, I will use a Yamaha P120/200 as a MIDI controller (Yamaha's digital piano's keys are very realistic). Everyone is happy.
2. I will go back to M/S miking to solve the spills issue when competing with the louder instruments/amplifiers on stage. If you have never tried M/S miking, this is the time to experiment. I usually use a pair of AKG C414s to do the job. Experiment and have fun. This age old technique has saved my butt a few times when I had to mic up a string section during a pop concert!

Cheers.