Why are Networks 15+ dB louder than NBC?

[aka21stCentury]

CNN is not the only offender in this regard. USA. History Channel is bad too (overly loud audio volume & spiked pre-emphasis on ads)... as I am certain there are others.

Hearing aide wearers could become deaf just changing channels. And pausing is harder and harder to do as current firmware tricks a menu to appear first, requiring users to pause twice to halt a commercial. This is not by accident.

It appears as if CNN has upped its dB level do to the current crisis in Japan... and the ads are even louder in addition to pre-emphasis.

Human nature is such, if the mix is warmer and the audio lowered... the music interesting -- we lean forward to pay more attention. What is with these brainiacs who ignore acousticians and pyschologists? Instead employees must adhere to orders from 'Corporate' or 'Programming'... no longer able to warn 'Corporate' of a fine or loss of an FCC license to operate.

George Westinghouse, God Bless him, had the foresight to suggest legislation to prevent abuse by advertisers who he 'knew' would demand their radio ads to be louder than the content of radio theatre.

Now with the horrible crisis in Japan, advertisers milk this horrendous humanitarian crisis for all its worth.

So blast those commercials CNN, make 'Corporate' content (who no longer get complaints for those paying for ads). But will these extremely successful Western Corporations match Sandra Bullock's generous 1 million dollar donation or double even quadruple it?

Add pre-emphasis to a + 20 dB ad and these ads become so grating and harsh it makes everyone & anyone despise TV. For hearing aid wearers, it may even damage their hearing permanently. So why not voluntarily self-regulate?

An example of intelligent advertising which supports financially the NBC show: 'Outsourced'.

This creative show, has a brilliant strategy which cuts back volume of ads, to make those with acute hearing, like many of us, not mute the audio instantaneously (which is harder and harder to do as set-top boxes are 'upgraded' by firmware). Although I have grown bored of the whispering sibillance... I still like the Bernhard Herrman inspired score in the background and in fact don't mute the commercial from Lincoln Mercury. What a relief not to have to mute these things for a change.

What do other DUC'rs think? Personally it tees me off to see this crisis 'milked' for financial gain. Cudos to Sandra Bullock. Sorry to get a little OT.

IMO there is a great opportunity in Digital HD for content color matching and audio filtering.

[albee1952]

Nothing bad will be said about Sandra Bullock. After all.....she could be my future ex-wife. As for CNN, I could care less if I ever see it. I never noticed this on the History channel, but I wonder if it has anything to do with the "smart volume" feature of my TV. I wonder if there's a difference between cable and satellite on this?

[aka21stCentury]

Well 'digital' Cable. I've been complaining for years, requesting levels to approximate FCC guidelines... plus a software limiter option rather than more compression options... yet they keep 'updating' firmware. Unfortunately you can't hear dialogue without a minimal amount of compression. Year after year still no limiter or level continuity. ScyFy Channel is cranking too. History Channel is not as bad except commercials. FOX news and MSNBC TOO LOUD!!!!

Good channels: TCM, Sundance, Encore(s). All fine. NBC on demand ok (except pre-emphasis on some commercials). So what is wrong with this picture?

Sandra Bullock is indeed generous and a humanitarian. But why do we have to read these more interesting stories as banners with earplugs on? CNN is totally of the charts. FYI my calculations are estimates based on 'draw' in watts (@ 8 ohms) into 8 ohm monitors. Old school VU meters, 30 watts = 0 dB on an 80 watt per channel amplifier... I am referring to relative changes in dBs, not absolute sound pressure levels. If indeed these are truly digital signals it should be an easy matter to fix... as then we are simply talking of bit depth. My understanding, and I suspect this is the case these are still multiplexed signals. And why is it those channels with big teeth (and advertisers with big teeth) are blasting our ears and/or hearing aides?

It is nearly impossible to deal with what is meant to be a sophisticated major digital tv provider, the audio can be poor quality, checking in occasionally with these major news channels can literally blow tweeters. And then the commercials spike, and not just with pre-emphasis either.

Sorry now I mentioned that one show. After episode 12 what I thought was a stroke of genius, ended up business as usual: a level boost on top of pre-emphasis at least that's what is sounds like to me?

[aka21stCentury]

CNN should be aware the bulk of their commercials during 'these crisis news stories' are now so loud there is audible distortion on many.

Just one CNN female news reporter in the studio with no background sounds of any kind shows 15 dB higher than the ScyFy Channel's programming with a loud rumbling bass sound effect in background with also a female reporter. This on Xfinity Digital cable. That is a HUGE difference! Bass has always been a dB meter booster. ScyFy is not innocent either regarding their overly loud commercials, nor is Fox, MSNBC!

(edit - currently CNN Wolf Blitzer's voice in the studio shows 12 dB higher on my amp's VU meters than KQED World News... no ads. FWIW - Sprints' ad on CNN was actually distorted just a few minutes ago. 11-24-11. Pre-emphasis used to get around FCC regulations when little was understood about human hearing and decibels per watt increase the exact frequencies hearing aides quadruple. Now most major NAB members don't feel the FCC law applies to them. They believe they are not public.

But if you've ever had a family member who could not hear conversations without a hearing aide... when commercials were broadcast over public airwaves you'll know what I'm talking about - literally pain in the ear.

Coincidentally the Emergency Alert System came on (Flash Flood Warning) and the computer voice was about 20 dB lower than CNN. I guess they (I think NOAA) don't have a 2020 MkIII? Without that emergency signal pre and post warning message one could completely ignore it.

Is there a digital standard does anyone know regarding post on these commercials? As in a signal in the cue process that tells the hardware a digital pre-emphasis has been applied to the master in post?

Are ads processed twice? First in post and again in the broadcast room? Hum.

[ondruspat]

Keep in mind that most of the network feeds are re-modulated and re-broadcast by the cable or dish provider. They have the ability to balance (or unbalance) the levels of the commercials, programming, etc, before they distribute them. Our local cable provider had one religious channel blasting louder than all the other channels. When I called their management they first said there was nothing they could do, Then I pointed out that I had a background in video distribution systems and that I would gladly show their tech where to adjust their system. It suddenly was adjusted...

[aka21stCentury]

I cannot tell you how many calls I've made but I wish Comcast would take accept your offer.

I can confirm, these are broadcast quality VU meters. 0 dB = 30 watts (80 watts per channel into an 8 ohm load) based on wattage (160 watt amplifier) that will show with a fairly high degree of accuracy changes in dB in watts drawn by the 8 ohm monitors. Not absolutely certain, but I believe Westinghouse lobbied the FCC and that law currently stands for public airwaves, it is based on dB by watts of exciter (broadcast power) overage on commercials in the past fined the broadcasters and radio engineers could lose their license.

Xfinity (formerly Comcast here) told me they have no control over levels and would put the limiter (optical type leveler) idea in their suggestion box. That was three years ago. They have two types of compression, typically radio broadcasters used a compressor followed by a limiter, now the levels are so hot, there is occasional burst of pink noise when changing stations on a rented HD DVR (Philllips) this just started (as of August 30, 2011) so perhaps CC is working on the problem.

We all know the drill. Calls are made: "I want our ads 'hot'!" So who is adding the pre-emphasis, a post house, or broadcast facility or both?

Is there any impending initiative within NAB to add a signaling tone via AES/EBU that can temporarily shut down the pre-emphasis within the Aphex Mark III?

I am going to email Aphex on this question. What I am hearing sounds to me like pre-emphasis on top of pre-emphasis? Anyone else?

Also the Emergency Alert Tone (just happened to go off yesterday) is the perfect volume (I happened to be watching CNN when flash flood warnings were broadcast) but the computer voice was way too low IMO.

In this case I believe NOAA should invest in an Aphex hardware unit like the Mark III for each language they broadcast in here in California. I am not opposed to pre-emphasis just as long as it is not used to blast a sales pitch many times louder (volume perception) than programming. It does assist in speech recognition for those with a slight hearing impairment, just not what I see and hear... cranking audio levels AND adding pre-emphasis.

It totally sucks that the hearing impaired cannot watch HD TV. BTW- Yamaha is now marketing a CMOS (I believe) surround amp with auto leveling (not a real solution if throwing $$$$ at the problem per household is required).

[aka21stCentury]

SyFy was so loud on 11-15-11 there was digital distortion.

http://tech.ebu.ch/groups/ploud

On the heels of a new law to go into effect Jan 1st, 2012, current subscribers pay head and broadcasters or Post Facilities.

Do the research yourself. Not dribble. Not trolling.

[aka21stCentury]

Perhaps it was not the SyFy Channel at all. My apologies. Levels are now good. Since no one at Comcast says the same thing, I don't believe them, the onus is on them regarding levels IMO. TNT is now too high.

Again the NOAA emergency broadcast if listening to TNT, one may not hear the speech. I think a Mark VI is appropriate for NOAA IMO, and they should up their levels!

TNT or USA is where in California you may see those blue (now black) subliminal pop ups with text inside. Often advertising shows on a different network. I am recording them... as sometimes they are so quick you can't even read what channel or what show. I've never been able to read the entire text inside the blue rectangle they are that fast, and I've tried, believe me.

There is no way to shut these pop ups off in set top box setup either. I asked Comcast for them to stop broadcasting these, that they may be considered subliminal, yet Comcast passes the buck to the broadcast networks. Then why do they not record on the Comcast DVR?

So, please others, who are likewise bothered by these, record them onto a DVD recorder, not a rented DVR with new Comcast Firmware. It is impossible now to view the firmware revision, unless an installer arrives with a special remote. In the past, one could read the firmware, no longer.

Comcast IMO needs to hire engineers and maintain levels

We own these power lines, many which are falling down, or poles termite infested or about to fall. Apparently we, the owners, have no say whether our AC power is polluted with RF? Including the ground and NOW the cable shield?

Smart Meters may introduce a 2 volt spike, 900-2.4 gHz not removable by any transformer.

Please ignore the troll, put him on your ignore list, (I won't quote his many rude comments to other posters on other threads, not just attacking me, but others...) and any suggestions helpful to this thread, since now it contains many aspects, since urgency is required: weeks days now and counting... in California.

Santa Cruz County. Has anyone in San Francisco or LA Counties likewise received this notice (not sent certified mail). If you pay via auto payments, you might ignore it. The notice here arrived late last week.

[aka21stCentury]

I will be checking my mail mods, if you feel anything should be deleted.

Totally the opposite of CISCO's research regarding minimizing ground pigtails, and replacing metallic boxes (grounded) with ABS where code allows. Absolutely the exact opposite of what CISCO found in copious studies.

Cisco/Stanford studied this, and those ignorant of this fact, or who cannot access CISCO's VPN, may not know. But it is the ground pigtails, extended now by hundreds of feet via the cable shield... RF on the ground, add to this WIFI over AC emitted by excited electrons in the air (public airwaves... we own these too, not just the AC lines).

FCC approved HomePlug no testing for potential EMI interference. FCC approved the Smart Meter (gas Smart Meter) with no real world testing. Now California Public Utilities is demanding safety tests... so it is my belief things are about to get infinitely worse re EMI and this immunity to State Laws a result of the Smart Meter's plug being yanked.

An electrical engineer named Rob States has been looking into this problem:

"smart meters measured so far, including ABB, GE, and Landis Gyr, emit noise on the customer’s electric wiring in the form of high frequency voltage spikes, typically with an amplitude of 2 volts, but a frequency any ware from 4,000 Hertz, up to 60,000 Hz. The actual frequency of the phenomena is influenced by the devices that are plugged into the customer’s power. Some houses are much worse than others, and this observation has been confirmed by PG&E installers that have talked to us.”

So now, what a 2 volt spike on our natural gas pipes in earthquake prone California. Tsunami prone, within 3,000 feet of a huge major gas pipeline (Public Utilities required PG&E to inform us).


TEST THE DANG THINGS prior to introducing EMI on multi million dollars worth of private gear. You have 10 billion in Federal Grants + so hire and test, find a solution state wide, and better now than later and ground IMO, and Comcast's own engineers, ISO 9000 surge protection design engineers, ground to the copper stake, not natural gas pipe in California.

[Emcha_audio]

@ Aka21stcentury.

Would you please stop trolling this forum!

This is a forum for Pro tools, and people of the audio engineering community. None of us, and I hope I'm correct in this, are actual suits in a cable/satellite distribution company in any place or form able to make a change.

You're not happy, then contact your congressman.. or woman for that matter.

Nothing you write here, will make a dent in how things are done over at the TV stations/distributors.

So please give us a break and go write on a proper blog instead of this forum. Cause it ain't a blog