PT 10 Full Lockup... let's see if we can figure it out

[funaroma]

Hi All,

I purchased a brand new PC to try and run PT10. I am having trouble with PT10 fully locking up the PC, to the point where I need to hold the power button down to shut it off. I am using PT version 10.3.7, with an Eleven Rack unit. This was a clean install on windows 8 64bit. My SANDRA report appears below.

Understood Possible issues:

• Windows 8 not supported
• Integrated Graphics not recommented
• Running sessions from OS drive not recommended

But I'm hoping I can get this working well enough to do basic songwriting/recording... I don't even anticipate needing more than 32 tracks max in any one session (but never say never, LOL).

I can trigger a freeze by simply trying to swap insert plugins, but it has happened when doing just about anything.

When I start my session, EZDrummer seems to generate CPU usage even when nothing is playing, at around 10% unless I make it inactive, at which time PT sits the CPU at around 1-2%. I'm running this very simple session (one 4 measure drum loop, ezdrummer set up to have instruments/mics on their own channel strip, and 4 measures of a simple voice track) off the OS drive. I have also tried running it off USB drive before, and lockups are occurring in both places. I do not have firewire available at this time, and hoping I won't need it. Willing to purchase a separate internal drive for PT when it comes down to it, and a separate video card if necessary (though the BIOS don't seem to show a way to disable the onboard video...). I have done all the windows optimizations I could find from Avid and others. I have also shut down all non-essential services AND disabled Defender and even disabled the network card. I had to move the eleven rack to a different usb port in order to get clean sound, but once I did that the sound was fine.

I know it's not a dream rig, but I have to believe that a session this simple shouldn't cause this hardware to barf like this.

So gurus, please let me know if the hardware reported below has any major red flags.

SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : studio
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : HP 110-023w 103C_53316J G=D
Serial Number : MXX34*****
Chassis : HP Desktop
Mainboard : HP 2AFB
Serial Number : 12345678********
BIOS : AMI (OEM) 80.12 09/30/2013
Total Memory : 7.88GB DIMM DDR3

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Pentium(R) CPU G2020T @ 2.50GHz (2C 2.5GHz, 2.5GHz IMC, 2x 256kB L2, 3MB L3)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA1155

Chipset
Memory Controller : HP Core (Ivy Bridge) DRAM Controller 100MHz, 8GB DIMM DDR3 1.33GHz 64-bit, Integrated Graphics

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : Samsung M378B1G73QH0-CK0 8GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Hewlett Packard HP W2072a
(1600x900, 26.4")
Video Adapter : Intel(R) HD Graphics (6CU 48SP SM5.0 350MHz/1GHz, 32MB DDR3 1.33GHz 64-bit, Integrated Graphics)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : Intel(R) HD Graphics (48SP 6C 350MHz/1GHz, 1.6GB DDR3 1.33GHz 64-bit, Integrated Graphics)
Compute Shader Processor : Intel(R) HD Graphics (48SP 6C 350MHz/1GHz, 64MB DDR3 1.33GHz 64-bit, Integrated Graphics)

Storage Devices
Seagate ST1000DM003-1CH162 (1TB, SATA600, 3.5", 7200rpm) : 932GB (C:) (D:)
hp CDDVDW SH-216DB (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 768kB Cache) : N/A (E:)

Logical Storage Devices
Windows (C:) : 914GB (NTFS) @ Seagate ST1000DM003-1CH162 (1TB, SATA600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
Recovery (D:) : 16GB (NTFS) @ Seagate ST1000DM003-1CH162 (1TB, SATA600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
Windows RE tools : 1023MB (NTFS)
Optical Drive (E:) : N/A @ hp CDDVDW SH-216DB (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 768kB Cache)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : HP H61 LPC Controller
LPC Legacy Controller 1 : T0 10-01
Audio Device : HP Cougar Point High Definition Audio Controller
Audio Codec : Realtek Semi Realtek 662 High Definition Audio
Disk Controller : HP Cougar Point 6 port SATA AHCI Controller
USB Controller 1 : HP Cougar Point USB Enhanced Host Controller #2
USB Controller 2 : HP Cougar Point USB Enhanced Host Controller #1
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Network Services
Network Adapter : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller (Ethernet, 100Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 8 Home 6.02.9200
Platform Compliance : x64

Windows Experience Index
Current System : 4.4

[Darryl Ramm]

Is the Eleven Rack the playback engine you are actually using? What Eleven Rack driver version?

Have you checked the versions of all your plugins are up to date/compativbley with Pro Tools and OS version you are using?

What *exactly* happens when the PC "fully locks up?" can you switch to other applications? Can you use CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up the Windows Task Manager? Can you kill Pro Tools? Does Pro Tools ever crash or does the system ever blue-screen?

Does this problem occur in a new session if you recreate or import the content from the existing session?

What are all your playback engine settings. Try unchecked ignore errors on the off chance that Pro Tools might throw an error.

Around the time of the hangs is anythign interesting happening in the Windows Event log. (use the Windows Event Viewer).

What third party plugin versions are installed (not necessarily used, just installed) and are they even supposed to be compatible with this version of Pro Tools or Windows? As always suspect plugins. Remove all third party plugins from the RTAS and AAX folders and start Pro Tools? Does this problem reoccur. Add back plugins in batches until you find the one causing the problem. The obvious quick test here is does this problem only happen with Superior Drummer? Or any other VI? If so you problem likely lies there and I would look to Toontrack for help.

Looking at usage meters is rarely helpful.

[The Weed]

Pentium R
Integrated Graphics
Recording to the System Drive
32 tracks

Cheers,

[funaroma]

Originally Posted by The Weed

Pentium R
Integrated Graphics
Recording to the System Drive
32 tracks

Cheers,

What is the issue with Pentium R? (If this is true... WTF?!)

The session I'm running has just two tracks. drum (midi; EZDrummer) and vocal. 4 lousy bars. System drive should be able to handle that.

[funaroma]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Is the Eleven Rack the playback engine you are actually using? What Eleven Rack driver version?

Have you checked the versions of all your plugins are up to date/compativbley with Pro Tools and OS version you are using?

What *exactly* happens when the PC "fully locks up?" can you switch to other applications? Can you use CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up the Windows Task Manager? Can you kill Pro Tools? Does Pro Tools ever crash or does the system ever blue-screen?

Does this problem occur in a new session if you recreate or import the content from the existing session?

What are all your playback engine settings. Try unchecked ignore errors on the off chance that Pro Tools might throw an error.

Around the time of the hangs is anythign interesting happening in the Windows Event log. (use the Windows Event Viewer).

What third party plugin versions are installed (not necessarily used, just installed) and are they even supposed to be compatible with this version of Pro Tools or Windows? As always suspect plugins. Remove all third party plugins from the RTAS and AAX folders and start Pro Tools? Does this problem reoccur. Add back plugins in batches until you find the one causing the problem. The obvious quick test here is does this problem only happen with Superior Drummer? Or any other VI? If so you problem likely lies there and I would look to Toontrack for help.

Looking at usage meters is rarely helpful.

11R is the playback engine, yes. Latest available driver.

Plugins: This was a fresh install of the latest PT download... does it not come with the latest plugin versions?

It's a complete crash, as in The Only Way To Get The Machine Back Is A Hard Power-Off And Restart, using the power button on the tower. It freezes everything on screen, mouse pointer won't even move. no bsod or equiv.

Have not tried to recreate/import. Happened with both the demo session and the brand new blank one I created.

Ignore errors is unchecked.

Will check the win event log the next time it happens.

*** New Information ***

I removed all plugins, and loaded the session I created. of course the only thing that would make a sound is the vocal track, since EZDrummer was now missing.

I let it run, looping those four measures of vocal, for about 2 hours. There was no crash. However, when I closed ProTools, I got a new error:

Runtime Error In PT.exe - R 6025 pure virtual function call

(not the exact text)

So I too suspect plugins, and am not looking forward to testing them all.

I do recall having installed PT 10.3.6 before realizing there was an updated 10.3.7. I had uninstalled .6 and installed .7. Would this cause plugins to be lame? Aside from EZDrummer I don't think I have any other plugins than those that came with PT... is there an easy way to tell? The are all moved out now, but I'd like to know what this new runtime error is.

[funaroma]

runtime error when closing seems rare... i'm going to run PT in a loop for another hour and see if it does it again. The freezes seem gone without the plugins. Currently am just using EZDrummer and the Eleven Rack UI ones.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by funaroma

11R is the playback engine, yes. Latest available driver.

Plugins: This was a fresh install of the latest PT download... does it not come with the latest plugin versions?

Well no obviously Pro Tools does not include all the plugins you are using, since you mention EZ Drummer. And what else have you installed or have left behind in the plugin folder by accident etc.? And what *exact* version of EZDrummer have you got installed?

How about saying exactly what Pro Tools version and exactly what driver version so we don't have to guess if what you think is the latest is really the latest. And whether you are factoring in, or confused about, "the latest" for your particular OS release or the latest overall.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by funaroma

What is the issue with Pentium R? (If this is true... WTF?!)

The session I'm running has just two tracks. drum (midi; EZDrummer) and vocal. 4 lousy bars. System drive should be able to handle that.

I'm not sure what you are basing your optimism on. This systems is way under/misconfigured. An old Pentium processor is the start, at least it is a dual core. It is very likely to run into problems running just few VI instances, having such an underpowered CPU likely makes the disk misconfiguration more of an issue.

God knows what your playback engine settings are but I'd be pretty pessimistic and start with a 1024 sample buffer, 1 CPU/99% and hope that EZDrummer can live on that single core.

[funaroma]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I'm not sure what you are basing your optimism on. This systems is way under/misconfigured. An old Pentium processor is the start, at least it is a dual core. It is very likely to run into problems running just few VI instances, having such an underpowered CPU likely makes the disk misconfiguration more of an issue.

God knows what your playback engine settings are but I'd be pretty pessimistic and start with a 1024 sample buffer, 1 CPU/99% and hope that EZDrummer can live on that single core.

The processor was launched just last year. Yes, it's underpowered, but it's not being taxed in any way. I'd be more inclined to believe that was an issue if the CPU meter in PT, or even Windows performance monitor, were showing CPU being utilized heavily. Even with the demo session - with all plugins on - the CPU utilization never rose above 8% or so. The disk utilization never goes above 10%.

And none of what you said explains why a simple session with only four bars of music in two channels -- a drum track and a simple vocal track -- is freezing, especially when PT wasn't even doing anything at all, just sitting there staring at me. If this were a full blown session freezing up during recording or playback I'd be more inclined to believe the consumer grade hardware was catching up to me. But not a tiny session with three or four plugins. No, all I needed to do was move things around on screen during an idle session for it to freeze.

I disabled all plugins except EZDrummer and the 11R UI, restarted my simple session and looped it all night. I just returned and it was still looping away and when I closed PT there was no error. I restarted PT and loaded the demo session again, and it plays just fine with no plugins. This was not possible before, so I definitely believe there's a plugin that's either incompatible with Win8/64bit and/or this specific version of PT.

What sucks is not having an easy means of finding it... now I get to experiment I guess.

[funaroma]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Well no obviously Pro Tools does not include all the plugins you are using, since you mention EZ Drummer. And what else have you installed or have left behind in the plugin folder by accident etc.? And what *exact* version of EZDrummer have you got installed?

How about saying exactly what Pro Tools version and exactly what driver version so we don't have to guess if what you think is the latest is really the latest. And whether you are factoring in, or confused about, "the latest" for your particular OS release or the latest overall.

Again, THE ONLY PLUGINS I HAVE INSTALLED ARE THOSE THAT CAME WITH PT, plus EZDRUMMER. That's it. The only issue could be a prior install of .6, which was uninstalled (does that remove the plugins that came with PT?) before .7 was installed... all before EZDrummer was installed anyway.

So if it's a plugin issue, it's a *PT* plugin issue between two minor PT versions, if anything, or simply a compatibility issue with Win8, which I would fully understand since I made that choice knowing it wasn't supported.

There are folks in this very forum claiming to run on Win8 just fine though, so who knows. If I find the faulty plugin, i'll certainly post back.