IS IT GOOD COMPRESSORS OR GOOD MASTERING

[NEIGHTD]

I produce Hip Hop and R&B music. I use alot of 808 kick drums in my music. After my music is mixed and mastered, I still find that the 808 drums do not sit the way I would like. To get the bang that I would like, I have to turn them up but then they over power the mix. If I turn them down to where they sit well in the mix, I don't get the bang that I would like. I would imagine that it's the way that I compress them but I don't know much about compression ratios. I hear how I want them to sound everyday in comercial music but I don't quite know how to recreate this. Does anyone have any tips or can anyone point me in the right direction?

[liberccxx]

you may want to do a little reading on this as it is a controversial subject, full of individual preference and emotion, and there is a whole lot of good stuff out there writen on this. my 2 cents: if all you're doing is trying to bring a 808 kick out it shouldn't be that hard. in my opinion only (and that is key) you may want to look at multiband compression as a standard compressor has serious limitations in what you're trying to do. long story short - elemental audio makes an excellent multiband compressor called "neodynium", should be able to download as a demo, and it has a really good drum preset. it's visual aspects will also help a great deal as you will be able to see, once you get a sound that works for you, exactly what bands, threshold, ratio, etc. work and you can use these in other compressors. anyways, just my opinion, do a little research and download a few demos, usually best way to audition compressors. in the end, your ears are the only real thing that counts.

[madrock]

mixing multiple kik sounds to "fill out" the 808.

blending a compressed sound with the dry sound is another method. to do this, select a bus as the output, create two aux tracks, select the output bus of your 808 track as their input and put the same plug-ins on both (as PTLE does not yet have PDC you have to do this to avoid phase issues). bypass the plug-ins on one and adjust to taste on the other. now blend 'em together.

Neve and SSL consoles have a huge impact on these factors you mention too.

[fizbin]

One of the most simple methods you can try is to insert a limiter on that track and make it go "BOOOOM". If this is not quite what you're looking for then multi-band compression will give you a lot more control, but can be quite a complex beast.

I believe there is a Digirack Limiter included and you could also try the BF76. I use Waves L1 when I need a limiter as an insert.

fizbin

[Chris Cavell]

Are you using an 808-like plugin or are you using a real 808 through some nice pre's like Neve 1073, 1081, 1084, etc?

[hubad]

I produce Hip Hop and R&B music. I use alot of 808 kick drums in my music.

Sounds like you talking about the deep humm kicks of the early 90's rap music.

The audio goal is not the sound of an acoustic drum kit in a room, but the sound of 'the street': unique, distorted, phased, flanged, anything-goes sounds that whet your listeners' interest. Grooves that can only be created through the sampled and synthesized world of the drum machine are a center of hip=hop and rap tunes.

Recall that the 'rock and roll kick' can be thought of as having two distinct parts: an initial attack that covers a broad range of frequencies from 100 HZ to 15 KHz followed by a (pitch-less) decay in the 40 HZ to 100HZ range. The initial broad-band hit, the 'click' cuts through the mix and conveys the 'rock and roll meeter' of the tune.

With drum loops keeping time, hip-hop and rap don't need a kick with click. The kick is part of the entire drum loop arrangement, and it can have a more interesting timbre and envelope. And one listen will confirm it: rap and hip-hop kicks definitiely have interesting timbre and envelope! The nearly attackless drum machine thump is very common. It can have a variety of sounds that might, for example, be described as sounding like a wet cardboard box or a heartbeat.

The basic technique remains the same. A pitched decay is added to a dry kick drum impulse. This is to me, is the most distinctive feature of the low-frequncy elements of hip-hop.

Using a simple oscillator patch, a low sine wave tone is created (other waveforms can be used for really interesting effects). Thw kick drum, kick sample, or even the sequencer itself is used to key a noise gate with a timed or slow release, and a sine wave is passed through the noise gate. Typically, its frequency is in the second or third octave (between 40 and 120HZ)

However, it often feels the loudspeaker could go no lower. Due to the absense of harmonics in the sine wave, its pitch is rather vague. The length of the decay ( or timed release ) is critical to the character of the sound, and should be determined by the feel of the song.

Ok that was the OLD SCHOOL method. Now for the PRO TOOLS method: READ April 1, 2003 LE Bootcamp!

Open the session you just downloaded and launch it. Hit the spacebar to listen to the drum loop play back; it should be looping. It's a decent loop — definitely worth working with — but it could sound a little fuller. You'll notice that the LOOP 1 track is soloed; hit the Solo button to turn off Solo and you should start to hear what's being bussed to the aux tracks, KICK BOOM and SNARE GRIT. It is a little subtle, but you'll notice a boom added to the kick track and a little more grit added to the snare. Keep hitting the Solo button on the LOOP 1 track to compare the track with and without the boom and grit added to the loop. Keep in mind that the changes are subtle. If you're monitoring through headphones it may be more difficult to hear because of the limited frequency response. If you're having trouble hearing it, try monitoring with your speakers.

How I Did It
First, make sure you've got a drum loop that you want to work with. For this exercise, try using the loop in the Audio Files folder (separated as individual left and right members of a single stereo file) included with the session you just downloaded. To import the loop into a new session, simply use the key command, Shift + Command/Ctrl + I, navigate to the aforementioned audio files (named beat 1-GAIN_01.L and beat 1-GAIN_01.R), double-click on them and hit Done. Both audio files should show up as one stereo file in the audio regions bin in the right side of the Edit window in Pro Tools.

Next, make sure that you've got a stereo audio track in Pro Tools and then drag the stereo audio file from the audio regions bin on the right of the Edit window to the stereo track. If you don't have a stereo audio track in Pro Tools, use the cool key command you learned a while back from Joe: Shift + Command/Ctrl + N; while still holding down the Shift and Command/Ctrl keys, use the right arrow key to select Stereo. Finally, hit Create.



Digidesign Signal Generator plug-in


Now, create two mono aux tracks using the same method, except this time use the down arrow key to select Aux Input; finally, hit the number 2 key to tell Pro Tools you want to create two auxiliary tracks. Hit Enter and voilá — there are your two aux tracks. Name the first aux track KICK and the second SNARE by double-clicking where it reads "Aux 1" and "Aux 2" on the bottom of the tracks. Doing this will help to keep things organized.

Next, open up the plug-ins for the session. To do this, simply click on the small up/down arrows in the first insert slot at the top of the Mix window on the Kick aux track, and select the Signal Generator plug-in. In the second insert slot on that same track, open the Expander/Gate plug-in. Now, while holding down the Option/Alt key, click on the Signal Generator plug-in in the KICK track insert slot and drag it over to the corresponding insert slot on the SNARE track. This is a quick way to copy that plug-in (and its settings) over to another track. Do the same for the Expander/Gate plug-in.


Digidesign's Expander/Gate plug-in

Next, you'll want to create two sends on the original LOOP 1 track. Simply click on one of the arrows in the Mix window under the inserts section to select a send. For the first send, select Bus 1; for the second, Bus 2. Don't forget to turn up the volume on the send to 0 dB (try clicking on the volume fader of the send while holding down Option/Alt; this makes the volume default to 0 dB). In so doing, you're sending an audio signal from the LOOP 1 track over to another track. Of course, now we have to select a destination to receive that signal.


Click image to enlarge
To do this, open the Expander/Gate plug-in on the KICK track. Near the top left of the plug-in you'll notice a key icon; click on the rectangle to the right of that key and select Bus 1. On the Expander/Gate plug-in on the SNARE track, do the same except select Bus 2. Now, you've got an audio signal from the LOOP 1 track going directly into the input of the Expander/Gate plug-in for each track. Make sure that on both of the Expander/Gate plug-ins — at the bottom where it says "External Key" — the button is depressed and the key in the square next to it is illuminated.

Next, dial in the settings shown on the screen shot to the right.

Tips for Dialing in the Plug-in Settings
You may be wondering how I came up with those settings. Well, I pretty much played with the dials and listened back until I found the settings I liked. That said, there are a few tips to keep in mind when attempting to dial in the right settings in this situation.

First, in the Signal Generator plug-in, the sine wave setting works best for adding some sub bass boom to the kick drum; for the snare, both the white and pink noise work. It just depends on what sound you're looking for.

Another thing to keep in mind — especially with the sine wave on the kick track — is to make sure the frequency of the sine wave is in tune with the kick. The easiest way to do this is to hit the Bypass button on the Expander/Gate plug-in so you can constantly hear the sine wave. While the sine wave is humming, tweak with the frequency knob until it sounds like it is in tune with the bass drum.

Dialing in the right settings for the Key HPF and Key LPF (High and Low Pass Filters, respectively) is definitely the trickiest part of this exercise. First, try by setting the volume on the Signal Generator plug-ins louder than you'll actually want them. The reason for this is that, in tweaking the settings — which, by the way, essentially tell the plug-in which frequencies should open and close the gate — it makes it easier to hear the Signal Generator and dial in the settings. Overall, this makes it much simpler to make sure the right parts of the drum beat (kick and snare parts in this example) are opening the gate. The main trick here involves nailing the frequencies such that the kick sound of the original loop opens the gate when you want the sine wave to embellish the kick — same idea for the snare. Do some experimenting and play around with the knobs; you're sure to find the right settings.

Hip-Hop tunes use this technique often in their quest for heavy, heavy,bass. The result is a super low bass pulse falling into a pattern kick hits that keeps the bottom end of the mix plenty active.

I hope this helps.

bye

[NEIGHTD]

Thanks guys I got a lot of good leads on things to try. I already had the elemental demo's but but really didn't think about using them. I'll give the other tips you guys gave me a try also I'll let you know what I come up with.

[will the moor]

great post hubad.


I have a lot of trouble with bass in general with my mixes. I dunno wassup with my ears. honestly, it depresses the [bleep] out of me sometimes. one thing that has helped though is to realize that the OTHER tracks might be masking it. so, instead of trying to turn up the bass or kick track, try rolling the low end off of the other tracks, carving out some frequency real estate for your kick track.

might help.

Will

[MattLambuth]

Hubad, you've been the best resource I've run into as far as ProTools tricks. I've also been over to the LE Boot Camp and checked out most of your lessons; I'm impressed by what you have on that site. I have a few questions for you:

1. Some mainstream tracks, when the bass/kick drum hits, the volume of the other instruments will drop and then resume regular volume again. For example, this happens in Madonna's new single. How is this accomplished? My guess would be to sync a limiter, on a different Aux track, to the gate/expander on the Aux track with the sine wave. In other words, when the bass hits, the limiter would limit other tracks so the bass kick is more prominent. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I'm sure you can shed some light on this subject.

2. How do I make my instruments sound fuller? Radio quality mixes, when wearing a pair of headphones, sound very full; it sounds like a full stereo sound. My mixes always sound like they're in the middle of my ears, when they should farther right or left. I hope this makes sense, it's the best way I can describe it. I've tried reverb and delays, all they do is make it sound more dissonant, but still in the middle of my ears. I've tried panning, that will move the sounds, but it still doesn't provide that full sound I'm looking for.

I didn't see anything about this on the LE Boot Camp site, so I figured I'd ask the source. I'm hungry for tips and tricks.

I hope you can help me,
Matt

[MattLambuth]

P.S. I noticed that you mentioned Aphix Twin. I love his beats, they are an example of what techniques I'm trying to discover. Is there a site I can go to find out more information about these kind of techniques?