tempo mapping and meter edits problem

[mickblah]

Ive done many tempo mapping jobs before for remixes and to help musicians with overdubs but ive come across a problem with a very complex piece. I have a song recorded freeform with 6/4 5/4 7/4 and 8/4 changes in tempo mapping I got one of the meters for a single bar wrong. When i attempt to change it by selecting the bar and identify beat changing an 7/4 start to 8/4 and coming at end to remain a 6/4 - PT appears to steal the beat from the following 6/4 bar making it actually 5/4 but not changing the meter marker for that bar
Has anyone come across this and is accurately editing meter impossible without changing future events. I know just clicking and changing from the meter bar itself adds the change and moves future meter marks out of sync.

Just wondered if im missing something as my only workaround is to move thru the rest of the song correcting each meter change till after the end.

Im not using elastic or changing audio in any way just trying to map

thanks in advance

mick

[_JJ_]

You should be able to change the meter for only one bar using the window which pops up when you click the + sign on the Meter ruler (see pic). Then manually input the bar number so that it defaults to beat one of that bar, then input the time signature.

If the following bar has already been assigned it's own meter then the above should only alter one bar. If the next bar has not been assigned it's own meter then you need to repeat these steps for that bar to get back to what it was. Everything you've already set beyond that point should stay as is.

By "recorded freeform" do you mean the musicians weren't following clicks or do you only mean the piece simply has odd bars in it but the tempo remains constant? (Tempo and Meter are two different critters).

Also note that markers don't move when you change the meter.

[mickblah]

Thanks JJ but no it doesnt work for me - I can only imagine some prefs im missing. Yes im doing tempo mapping along with meter changing and i learned many years ago that i should get meter right as i went along

In images 1+2 ive changed meter bar14 from 8/4 to 9/4 but
its added an extra bar of 9/4 and bar 15 doesnt say 8/4 but is, and all the tempo map is out and meters moved along.

In images 3/4 using "identify beat" and applying correct meter values im changing bar8 from 6/4 to 7/4 with the end of bar 8 being 8/4 which it shows correct but you see the bar is actually 7 beats so its borrowing a beat from bar 9 but not declaring it in bar.

In the past did find a correction by changing leter then cutting and pasting to correct all the following but wondered if i was missing something obvious.

thanks

sorry images wont go up for me

[_JJ_]

Mick,

Sorry, off topic but I need to ask; why would you go to all this effort to match a grid to a live and freely flowing piece of music? Do you need to generate drums or something? Even to add midi keys I would think the only way would be to play along with the music. I can't figure out what you're up to.

Anyway, I digress...

I tried to recreate the issue and I think your use of "Identify Beat" and "Beat Detective" is where things are going pear shaped for you.

I admit I am not familiar with these tools - but I made a test session with a varying click just to mess around and it got weird. I selected a short segment and chose "Identify Beat" which put a tempo change in the middle of beat 3. That's ok. But "Beat Detective" on the same selection "generated" a new meter and tempo starting in the middle of beat 3 making the previous bar's time signature incorrect. That looks like the behavior you're seeing.

I also see that some of your time signature marks are in italics and I'm not sure what that indicates.

I'm sure somebody in here who is more familiar with these tools could explain. I'd need to dig into the Reference Guide to have a clue.

[suicune]

I have come across this problem before. I'm a little too busy right now to fully test and recall how to repair it but the gist of it goes something like this:

When your tempo markers are BLUE as they are when you identify beat they are in sample reference i.e. locked to a timeline position rather than referenced to a bar. So if you try and change a bar they won't adjust to follow. Go back to before you made the time signature adjustment. Now use the little plus in the tempo ruler to create a manual tempo change (it doesn't matter where - do it well after your song so as not to mess anything up). This will automatically change the entire ruler to tick based tempo markers instead (they will go green). Now try make your time signature adjustment again. If I'm remembering the sequence correctly they should move to follow.

Or I might have missed a stage there. In which case let me know and I'll try an experiment the next time I get 5 mins.

[mickblah]

Thanks to both for guidance - I will take a look at suggestions but note this is all after the fact as I had to go thru and repeat stages to get it ready in time. It is multitrack but as its so polyrhythmic what you see is a quickmix as it was easier for me to see as even kicks and bass are not always on the elusive one........Im not changing anything in the way of tempo or sync but had to a few edits ie remove a bar exchange a bar sort of thing and ran some tempo controlled effects. I dont use beat detective for this sort of thing as ive done it many time and havent even looked at what it might do different - so no detection all by ear. I will do a more organised retets late to see where italics and stuff come in.
I first came across the issues long ago and sort of assumed the meter bar was set like this for composers more than botch artists....

thanks again mick