DANTE and HDX card Max I/O

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

1. How does DADman deal with hardware inserts? My understanding now is that there aren't really "hardware inserts" per se in DAD-world. Rather, you bus an output to a piece of hardware, then use an input to return it, but there is no facility to enter and compensate for the round-trip latency (which, admittedly sounds very low indeed). But still... I can't say this is a terribly clean way to build a session. You'd have to have an aux/audio track-in-input for every returning HW insert signal and you would need to choose where plug-in inserts are instantiated, either on the source audio track, or the return track. I guess this is why keeping an HD I/O around for this is a good idea. I'm beginning to understand earlier comments about this.

Right, I also keep a HD I/O around for this (I kinda like the way they sound too). You measure it and enter it into I/O setup but beware, these values will typically change for different sample rates, and they can only be entered in milliseconds rather than samples.

2. Is it possible (in DADman) to patch the input of the AX64 (or MTRX/II) directly to the monitoring/headphones to avoid hearing the input "off the repro head", as it were? That could mitigate desires to run an HDX-based interface for recordings except for larger channel counts. If you just had a soloist in, I'm wondering if you could employ this strategy, assuming that you didn't require live plug-ins.

You could do this but, makes punching in hard. If you want really low latency and the ability to drop in, HDX (or maybe Carbon) is the way to go.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

Two remaining things I would like to understand:

1. How does DADman deal with hardware inserts? My understanding now is that there aren't really "hardware inserts" per se in DAD-world. Rather, you bus an output to a piece of hardware, then use an input to return it, but there is no facility to enter and compensate for the round-trip latency (which, admittedly sounds very low indeed). But still... I can't say this is a terribly clean way to build a session. You'd have to have an aux/audio track-in-input for every returning HW insert signal and you would need to choose where plug-in inserts are instantiated, either on the source audio track, or the return track. I guess this is why keeping an HD I/O around for this is a good idea. I'm beginning to understand earlier comments about this.

2. Is it possible (in DADman) to patch the input of the AX64 (or MTRX/II) directly to the monitoring/headphones to avoid hearing the input "off the repro head", as it were? That could mitigate desires to run an HDX-based interface for recordings except for larger channel counts. If you just had a soloist in, I'm wondering if you could employ this strategy, assuming that you didn't require live plug-ins.

1: You create the hardware insert inside protools and compensate in the inserts tab within the i/o window.

2:yes

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

1. How does DADman deal with hardware inserts? My understanding now is that there aren't really "hardware inserts" per se in DAD-world. Rather, you bus an output to a piece of hardware, then use an input to return it, but there is no facility to enter and compensate for the round-trip latency (which, admittedly sounds very low indeed). But still... I can't say this is a terribly clean way to build a session. You'd have to have an aux/audio track-in-input for every returning HW insert signal and you would need to choose where plug-in inserts are instantiated, either on the source audio track, or the return track. I guess this is why keeping an HD I/O around for this is a good idea. I'm beginning to understand earlier comments about this.

See the sticky by Jeff Komar on the MTRX & MTRX Studio forum, he wrote down all delay numbers for MTRX at all sample rates. Works sample accurate when using hardware-inserts in pro tools . (you can fill in those sample delay numbers in the I/O setup at the hardware insert tab)

Originally Posted by Picture Start

2. Is it possible (in DADman) to patch the input of the AX64 (or MTRX/II) directly to the monitoring/headphones to avoid hearing the input "off the repro head", as it were? That could mitigate desires to run an HDX-based interface for recordings except for larger channel counts. If you just had a soloist in, I'm wondering if you could employ this strategy, assuming that you didn't require live plug-ins.

Only do this when you have your MTRX II or AX64 as Thunderbolt playback engine in pro tools and don't do this when HDX is the playback engine. Pro Tools run natively has the beautiful Low Latency Monitor option, so that you can patch a mic pre directly to a Dante output for monitoring, for instance ( you can patch in the same mic pre in DADman to your monitor profile, so that you'll hear it too in the control room) With LLM checked on, protools will automatically mute the input path of a record enabled track while playing back the the already recorded clips on an record enabled track, which is awesome. When HDX is the playback engine this option disappears so you cannot use this.

And indeed, when using an outboard channel strip with mic pre, EQ and compression, you actually don't need additional plugin processing during tracking. Ticking the 'allow sends to persist in LLM' box in preferences provides you with a verb on on an AUX track in pro tools that is still audible with LLM activated.

[LukeHoward]

Ah, I forgot about LLM.

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

Ah, I forgot about LLM.

LLM is amazing, especially for single vocal overdub workflows. A lot of people think I'm crazy when I say that it should be an option when HDX is the playback engine as well. 'Why should you need LLM when you have a dedicated DSP tracking path with HDX?' Well: when I do overdubs in 6 different songs (and sessions) all with different vocal processing or in case of backing vocals doing 10 or 20 differently panned /bussed tracks. With a direct monitor patch outside Pro Tools and LLM turned on, I can hear the talent all the time, even when closing and switching between pro tools sessions, and no matter at what kind of processed or panned track I punch in, the monitor sound for me and the vocalist is 100% steady throughout the whole session. I love it.

[Picture Start]

Originally Posted by LukeHoward

Right, I also keep a HD I/O around for this (I kinda like the way they sound too). You measure it and enter it into I/O setup but beware, these values will typically change for different sample rates, and they can only be entered in milliseconds rather than samples.



You could do this but, makes punching in hard. If you want really low latency and the ability to drop in, HDX (or maybe Carbon) is the way to go.

RIGHT—I remember having this problem with Apollo and LLM. Thanks for the reminder. Another potential win for HDX/HD I/O.

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

RIGHT—I remember having this problem with Apollo and LLM. Thanks for the reminder. Another potential win for HDX/HD I/O.

Yeah, I admit I was surprised that the MTRX didn't do this, after all it is Avid-branded. But upon reflection because things can be re-patched in DADman asynchronously to Pro Tools, it would require some complicated coordination between the two applications (which may not even be running on the same machine).

Really it would have been better if latency could be reported (continuously) via DigiLink, and compensation values updated whenever the transport stopped. But that ship has sailed.

[Picture Start]

RobertDorn, I will have to try everything you mentioned when I'm able.

I also didn't realize, based on my conversation yesterday with DAD, that you can still use the I/O Setup's Insert page as normal with DAD/Avid-branded DAD products. A bit of confusion sounds like.

Replies appreciated.

[LukeHoward]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

RobertDorn, I will have to try everything you mentioned when I'm able.

I also didn't realize, based on my conversation yesterday with DAD, that you can still use the I/O Setup's Insert page as normal with DAD/Avid-branded DAD products. A bit of confusion sounds like.

Yes, looking at the manual, I think all versions support hardware insert delay offsets irrespective of whether you're using a DigiLink interface or not. But someone will correct me I'm sure...

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by Picture Start

RobertDorn, I will have to try everything you mentioned when I'm able.

I also didn't realize, based on my conversation yesterday with DAD, that you can still use the I/O Setup's Insert page as normal with DAD/Avid-branded DAD products. A bit of confusion sounds like.

Replies appreciated.

You'll need the I/O setup in anyway, wether you use a good old HD I/O or a MTRX. The big difference between both (apart from conversion quality) is that HD I/O is a 'hard patched unit'. And the MTRX has a mind boggling big matrix to patch anything to anything. Once you're done patching in DADman, step 2 is to tell pro tools to which DADman patched inputs it should listen and to which DADman patched outputs it should send.