Help me mix this song!

[Noviisi]

Hello!

I am a novice 002R user and would be very pleased about any help about the fine art of mixing a song in ProTools 8.

I recently recorded couple of songs from a band rehearsal. Here is one of them. Please give me good advices what to do to the song in whole and to the individual instruments. I can then go on and try to do what you advice.
At the moment nothing has been done to the song/instruments. (no eq, compressors, reverb.... only some Oxfort Inflator to the master channel).

Here is a link to the song:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/mou/suurioot.html

Here are some more info about the recording:
Tracks:
1) BassDrum (Sonor 22" --> EV N/D 868 --> 002R)
2) Snare, hit (Sonor --> Shure PG56 --> 002R)
3) Snare, crosstick (same as above)
4) Tom (Sonor --> Shure PG56 --> 002R)
5) Hihat & Crash & Ride (Shure PG81 --> 002R)
6) Bass (Warwick --> SansAmp Bass Driver DI--> 002R line input)
7) Piano (Roland FP-7 --> 002R stereo line input)
8) Lead Vocals (Rode NTK --> Focusrite Penta --> 002R line input)
9) Background Vocals (same as above)

Recorded: 24 bit/44.1

So: which eq, compressor, reverb and which settings for each?

[Murt]

You're asking a lot here and I don't know what your level of Pro Tools is so I'll just give some basic pointers for now:
There are no hard and fast rules but a good idea is to create some Aux tracks first.

On the first Aux insert a Reverb for the vocals and then send the vocals to it by clicking on one of the sends of your vocal track in the mix window. You can control the amount of the Reverb with the fader that pops up when you 'send' your vocal track to the Aux. Too much reverb is going to make the vocal sound distant so be subtle with it. As soon as you start to hear the reverb on the Vocal that's probably about right.

On the second Aux track insert another Reverb but this time you are going to send the snare and overheads to it so it will be a different setting to the Vocal Reverb. On your Reverb plugin you should have some presets on it for Vocals, Drums, Snare, Plate etc.. The best thing for now is to use the presets that relate to the track, you know, Vocal preset for vocals, snare preset for snare, drums preset for overheads and so on, you get the idea. If you're not happy with the Preset, then tweak it until you're happy with it. As above, once you start to hear the effect of the Reverb it's probably enough unless you're looking for a particular effect.

On the third Aux track insert a Delay plugin and set it to a short delay. You can send your Vocal to this also if you want to see what the effect sounds like. If you don't like the result then don't bother using it.

On the fourth Aux you could insert another Reverb and set it to a longer decay and send the background vocals to it.Once you hear the Reverb STOP raising your send fader.

As far as using compression, you can insert a compressor on the individual tracks themselves as opposed to setting up an Aux track. Snares, Kick, Overheads and Bass generally tend to respond well to subtle compression. Keep it subtle unless your looking for a particular effect.

As an alternative with Drums, you could create an Aux track (call it Drum Buss) and send all your drum/percussion tracks to that Aux (click on the send in the mix window). Then you could insert a compressor on that Aux track to control the level of compression on all the drums.

Phew, there's a lot involved before you even get to mixing.

As a general point if you don't know how to set up 'sends'. On every Aux track, click on the Input and choose an available Bus (Mono will be a single Bus such as Bus 5, 6, 7 etc.... and Stereo will be a pair of Buses such as Bus 7-8, 9-10, 11-12 etc.....) If the input is in bold it's already in use and choose another one. If you have a Mono Aux the Input will be a Mono Bus and a Stereo Aux will be a Stereo Bus. The choice of Mono or Stereo Aux is up to you.

As far as mixing is concerned, a lot of people get the rhythm/heartbeat (bass/drums) sounding right first. It's up to you though.

If the vocal is meant to be the most prominent thing in the mix then bring that up first and mix everything around it, if it's the drums then bring the drums up and mix everything around them, you get the idea.

Best of luck, hope you get more advice.

[jeam25]

Originally Posted by Murt

As soon as you start to hear the reverb on the Vocal that's probably about right.

Once you hear the Reverb STOP raising your send fader.

Ive always ask myself on this :

You make the step ( Once you hear the Reverb STOP ) reverb solo with the vocal or with all the instruments ??

Thanks !

[Noviisi]

Originally Posted by Murt

a good idea is to create some Aux tracks first.

On the first Aux insert a Reverb for the vocals

On the second Aux track insert another Reverb but this time you are going to send the snare and overheads

On the third Aux track insert a Delay plugin and set it to a short delay.

On the fourth Aux you could insert another Reverb and set it to a longer decay and send the background vocals to it.

Thanks Murt! Ok, now I have made all the Aux tracks.
Next step is to choose the best reverb for these Aux tracks.
I have: TrueVerb, IR-L, D-Verb, AIR Spring Reverb, AIR Reverb, AIR Nonlinear Reverb.
I could also download a demo version of some other reverb if someone would recommend it highly for this song.
So, which reverb to choose for vocal, background vocal, drums?
Any settings as guidelines?

Originally Posted by Murt

Snares, Kick, Overheads and Bass generally tend to respond well to subtle compression.

As an alternative with Drums, you could create an Aux track (call it Drum Buss) and send all your drum/percussion tracks to that Aux (click on the send in the mix window). Then you could insert a compressor on that Aux track to control the level of compression on all the drums.

The choice of Mono or Stereo Aux is up to you.

Is it best to have stereo Aux for vocal reverbs? And what about drums?
Would you put mono or stereo reverb for this song?

Any recommendations for compressors?
I have: Waves C1, Renaissance Compressor, BF76 Compressor, Compressor/Limiter. Again, I think I would be interested to download a demo version of some other compressor if you recommend it for this song.

Originally Posted by Murt

As far as mixing is concerned, a lot of people get the rhythm/heartbeat (bass/drums) sounding right first. It's up to you though.

If the vocal is meant to be the most prominent thing in the mix then bring that up first and mix everything around it, if it's the drums then bring the drums up and mix everything around them, you get the idea.

Best of luck, hope you get more advice.

I think it would be natural for me to begin with bass/drums because those are the instruments I play also.
What should I be looking for in this song/general? Any advice?

Thank you very much so far!

[Murt]

Originally Posted by Noviisi

Thanks Murt! Ok, now I have made all the Aux tracks.
Next step is to choose the best reverb for these Aux tracks.
I have: TrueVerb, IR-L, D-Verb, AIR Spring Reverb, AIR Reverb, AIR Nonlinear Reverb.
I could also download a demo version of some other reverb if someone would recommend it highly for this song.
So, which reverb to choose for vocal, background vocal, drums?
Any settings as guidelines?

They're all quite useable but the only one I'm familiar with is D Verb and I'm not hugely impressed with it. TL Space is good also.
I downloaded Redline Reverb by 112db yesterday. I was very impressed with the presets on it. You get 60 days free trial with no limitations and it's only £90UK to buy. http://www.112db.com/redline/reverb/
I would start with a Vocal preset for Vocals and fine tune it until you like the sound of it.
You could use the same preset for Background vocals but maybe with a slightly longer decay time.
Same with the snare, use a snare preset or a plate. You don't have to use reverb on the snare if you don't want. Lots of reverb on the snare was something that was popular in the eighties. A lot of modern productions tend to have a very dry drum sound in comparison with that time with more subtle use of reverb nowadays. You can send the drum overheads to it also but less is more. The key is to use reverbs and compressors sparingly/gently, caress the track, don't smother it, let it breathe.
Use the presets for now, at least that will get you started. I don't know enough about finer settings to offer any advice in that area.

Is it best to have stereo Aux for vocal reverbs? And what about drums?
Would you put mono or stereo reverb for this song?

I tend to use mono Aux's. I haven't needed to use stereo Auxes much. Hopefully someone can offer advice in that area.

Any recommendations for compressors?
I have: Waves C1, Renaissance Compressor, BF76 Compressor, Compressor/Limiter. Again, I think I would be interested to download a demo version of some other compressor if you recommend it for this song.

All good compressors above. Use the presets for now until you get used to what the compressor is doing. Don't overdo it or you'll suck the life out of the track. I would recommend the CT4 by Massey Plugins. It's free with minor limitations http://www.masseyplugins.com/
There are some good tutorials on the use of compression on http://www.groove3.com/str/ create an account for some free tutorials. Or just search for pro tools tutorials for an array of free tutorials.

I think it would be natural for me to begin with bass/drums because those are the instruments I play also.
What should I be looking for in this song/general? Any advice?

Sure, start with bass/drums. Try to get a nice balance between them. If you're happy with the kit, bring the bass in and try to balance it with the kit playing. I don't tend to solo instruments too much when trying to get them to mix well (only for checking that they sound alright in the first place). It's good to hear the instruments alongside each other when mixing because they're all fighting for similar frequencies.
Hopefully someone else out there will offer some mixing advice. A lot of it is experience/practice/letting your ears adjust to your mixing environment and so on.
Best of luck.

[Murt]

Originally Posted by Murt

I don't tend to solo instruments too much when trying to get them to mix well (only for checking that they sound alright in the first place

A very important point I forgot to mention. Solo Safe all your Aux tracks. Control click on the Aux solo button (or whatever the equivalent is on a Mac ). That way when you solo a track that is sending to the reverb, you'll hear the reverb.

[Noviisi]

Originally Posted by Murt

I downloaded Redline Reverb by 112db yesterday. I was very impressed with the presets on it.
I would start with a Vocal preset for Vocals and fine tune it until you like the sound of it.
You could use the same preset for Background vocals but maybe with a slightly longer decay time.
Same with the snare, use a snare preset or a plate.

Thanks so much again Murt! Lots of info! I start with the reverb.
I downloaded Redline Reverb.
I found a "Vocal Plate" preset for vocals. Is there some other preset I could try for vocals?
For snare and crosstick I used a "Drum Room" preset. Any other preset you/or someone else would recommend?
I "fine tuned" it some and you can look at this picture to see my settings: http://koti.mbnet.fi/mou/RedlineReverbs.jpg
The first is for lead vocals, second for background vocals and the third for snare&crosstick.
Which settings are the most crusial when mixing vocals?

All of you can now listen the "Redline Reverb" -version of the song and
tell me what you think. Was the use of reverb a success? Were the settings wrong/right for vocals/ this song?
I used mono aux tracks for reverbs this time (have been using stereo reverb tracks before...).

http://koti.mbnet.fi/mou/suurioot.html

The "dry version" of the song is still there so you can a/b them.

Any other recommendations for different reverbs of reverb settings?

[Murt]

Originally Posted by Noviisi

Any other preset you/or someone else would recommend?
I "fine tuned" it some and you can look at this picture to see my settings: http://koti.mbnet.fi/mou/RedlineReverbs.jpg
The first is for lead vocals, second for background vocals and the third for snare&crosstick.
Which settings are the most crusial when mixing vocals?

I don't think there any 'standard' settings used in studios. Manufacturers programme settings that are pleasant to the ear. Ideally it's up to you. If you like the result then they are the correct settings. It's totally subjective. Everyone on the duc and every engineer probably uses different settings to suit their own personal taste. Experiment with it and trust your own decisions.

[Noviisi]

Ok, it seems that this reverb conversation is done.
I don't feel that the result is "pro sounding" enough but
I will come back to the reverb tweaking later on.

Now the question is: Should I turn next to EQ or Compressors?

P.S. I'm a bit suprised that nobody has commented about what needs to be done EQ-wise to the song! (a lot I would imagine).