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  #1  
Old 04-08-2012, 12:03 PM
ggegan ggegan is offline
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Default Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

I haven't found any True Peak Limiter DSP plugins and since vendors don't seem to be clamoring to churn out AAX DSP plugins, I feel Avid should step up to the plate and bundle one with Pro Tools HD DSP systems.

If you are working in broadcast or cable post production, a True Peak limiter is becoming pretty much mandatory these days. Using an RTAS plugin like Elixir on 5.1 stems not only eats up way too many voices, it also gobbles up tons of processing power and requires long ADC to deal with the excessive latency. The amount of latency causes timing issues with real time fader moves, even with ADC on, making ICONs and other control surfaces feel unresponsive.

This has become a major issue and it needs a solution soon. A True Peak limiter should be considered a mandatory component of any professional DAW. Avid should definitely include one in it's package of bundled plugins.
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

+1 - Absolutely!

Just to elaborate, within roughly a year or so, just about every TV program made in America or Europe (EU) will have to comply with the new specs. The specs are written: A85 max peak = -2dBTP and R128 max peak = -1dBTP. If we want to use the dynamic range offered by these new specs and we will because producers will demand it, then how do we guarantee staying within spec without a usable TP limiter? As Gary says, the only one out there at the moment is Elixir but the voice consumption, CPU and delay makes it impractical. A TDM and an AAX DSP True Peak limiter are desperately needed and the need will only intensify as more broadcasters switch over to the new specs.

As the audio post industry standard, ProTools really should have the basic tools to allow it to be used to meet the standards now being demanded by the industry! Otherwise, by definition, how can it be called "industry standard"?!

BTW, Gary do you have DMG Compassion? In theory this might help a little with CPU usage (although maybe not with delay and definitely not with voices). I haven't had chance to play with it yet but on paper it has all the requirements (options for look ahead, brickwall limting and oversampling).

G
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:06 PM
ggegan ggegan is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

I have Compassion, but I haven't picked it apart yet and learned all the options. There is a lot to it. I like DMG plugins, but unfortunately they are RTAS at this point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think look ahead works on Aux tracks since there is nothing on the track to look ahead at.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:21 PM
cjguitar cjguitar is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

I may be wrong, but I think lookahead just buffers more of the audio, often adding more latency to a given plug-in. I agree that there really needs to be a DSP true peak limiter, I really love Elixir, and think it sounds amazing, but it is a CPU hog and really does induce quite a bit of latency like you've said. I would really like to push Flux to port some of their products to AAX DSP, though I don't know if that will ever happen.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:19 AM
thierryd thierryd is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

I agree Avid should really look into this. And I would be really happy if it would still work on HDX AND TDM systems dsp, as we live in transitional times. Maybe other plugin developers can look into this.
But the important thing is dsp compatibility like Gary says.

On a side note I have to say that until now I got by with putting a L1 at -3dBFS on the stems to stay within the -1dBTP R128 norm, but it would be a lot easier not having to worry about it with a limiter that actually limits TP.

Greetings,

Thierry
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:01 AM
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mgoorevich mgoorevich is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

Massey? How about giving us this option? You can
call it l2012?
Seriously, I would buy it straight away without even demoing it.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:33 AM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
I have Compassion, but I haven't picked it apart yet and learned all the options.
Yes, well good luck with that. I've played around with it a fair bit (as a compressor rather than as an ITU compliant limiter) and still don't know what half of it does, I don't think I'll ever learn a good portion of it. It's not just all the individual parameters but how they operate in conjunction with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think look ahead works on Aux tracks since there is nothing on the track to look ahead at.
AFAIK, cjguitar's answer is correct but I suppose it depends on the programmer. Certainly Compassion has user definable look ahead but of course the longer the look ahead, the more the delay.

I've always been impressed with how efficient the DMG plugins are with CPU resources, my guess is that it will be more efficient than Elixir but I don't have Elixir so I can't compare. Depending on look ahead settings Compassion may or may not improve on Elixir's delay.

I tried to use Compassion as a limiter but had difficulty setting it up to function as an absolute brickwall limiter, it's not as obvious as just selecting the limiter option and adjusting the threshold. So, last year I emailed Dave Gamble and he kindly created a "mod" (settings file) for me to import into Compassion, which creates a brickwall limiter preset. If anyone wants to PM me with their email address I'll be happy to email it to you (the mod file is only 2.4kB).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
Massey? How about giving us this option? You can
call it l2012?
Seriously, I would buy it straight away without even demoing it.
AFAIK, the 2007 doesn't oversample and is therefore just a standard limiter rather than a TP limiter.

Cheers, G
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:58 AM
mr.armadillo mr.armadillo is offline
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Default

I'd love to have a TP option in both the Massey 2007 and Waves L2. I guess we'd have to wait for the Waves AAX release before anything happens.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:53 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.armadillo View Post
I'd love to have a TP option in both the Massey 2007 and Waves L2. I guess we'd have to wait for the Waves AAX release before anything happens.
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/elixir

At the moment it's RTAS but the site says:

Quote:
AVID AAX expected during Q1 2012
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:01 AM
ggegan ggegan is offline
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Default Re: Avid should bundle a True Peak limiter DSP Plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/plug_ins/elixir

At the moment it's RTAS but the site says:
The question is whether it will be AAX DSP or not. On an HDX system, putting a processing hungry 5.1 native plugin like Elixir on a master or an aux causes issues with latency and voice usage.
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