Worth it to upgrade to TDM during Waves Sale?

[drumster]

I'm sure this has been covered before in the past, but the news of the recent Waves promotion of 50% off of TDM bundles and upgrades has got me seriously considering upgrading a couple of my Native bundles to TDM. Specifically, the Studio Classics Collection and the CLA Classic Compressors bundle.

I currently run an HD 2 system, but don't record full bands and usually just record one or two inputs at a time. The majority of my plugins are all Native, with the exception of the usual Digi Rack plugins and Bomb Factory plugins. I also own the TDM version of the Abbey Road RS124 Compressor, which I picked up during a recent sale over Christmas.

Obviously, the advantages of TDM plugins are the ability to track through them and use them on Auxes without burning voices. To be honest, that's been the only downside to using RTAS plugins because my 8 Core Mac Pro can handle tonnes of RTAS processing. I've heard the argument that using TDM plugins leaves more host CPU processing for VI's, but in reality we all run out of RAM before that happens due to PT's 32 bit architecture.

Of course TDM plugins are not without their issues either, as many of them eat up dsp chips like crazy, and on an HD 2 that goes quick. Sometimes with all this balancing act between voices and dsp, I've often wondered if HD Native was the better way to go. Also with Tony Cariddi himself encouraging people towards HD Native, I have to wonder what the future plans are for TDM. Even if a new system is introduced, will the old plugins even work? It's alot to think about when considering buying TDM plugins this day in age.

I can upgrade both bundles for less than $750 total and can't decide if it's worth it, so I thought I'd get some outside input. What would you do if you were in my position? Would you make the investment, or would you stick with the Native versions?

[djjazzy41]

I have the same PT set-up as you (HD2 Accel PCIe & 192i/o) and I just bought into the Waves TDM arena last week. At those prices, how can you go wrong? I do a lot of work similar to what you describe, but I still want to use TDM plugs any time I can if for no other reason than to eliminate the work the delay compensation has to do. Not a problem with a Mac like mine, but it's just nice to know I don't have to worry about any of my TDM plugs causing any other issues. Maybe I do it for peace of mind haha (not a cheap commodity, by the way!). Anyway, if it were me, I would go for the upgrade. Any new buyers should definitely spring for the TDM versions (some of them are actually cheaper than the old Native prices!). At the end of the day, we have two cards' worth of processors; we might as well get some use out of them!

[drumster]

Originally Posted by djjazzy41

I have the same PT set-up as you (HD2 Accel PCIe & 192i/o) and I just bought into the Waves TDM arena last week. At those prices, how can you go wrong? I do a lot of work similar to what you describe, but I still want to use TDM plugs any time I can if for no other reason than to eliminate the work the delay compensation has to do. Not a problem with a Mac like mine, but it's just nice to know I don't have to worry about any of my TDM plugs causing any other issues. Maybe I do it for peace of mind haha (not a cheap commodity, by the way!). Anyway, if it were me, I would go for the upgrade. Any new buyers should definitely spring for the TDM versions (some of them are actually cheaper than the old Native prices!). At the end of the day, we have two cards' worth of processors; we might as well get some use out of them!

You're right; what's the point of having these HD cards if we're not going to use them? It would be very convenient during tracking to be able to do parallel processing with the TDM versions and not have to worry about adding to the system delay. Both bundles are some of my favourite plugins, so I know I'd get my use out of them.

It's interesting that you still jumped on the promotion despite having one of the newest Mac Pro's. From what I've heard, the new Westmere models just smoke! I also noticed that you're using an SSD for your system drive. How is that working out? I'm considering doing the same thing.

[djjazzy41]

Originally Posted by drumster

You're right; what's the point of having these HD cards if we're not going to use them? It would be very convenient during tracking to be able to do parallel processing with the TDM versions and not have to worry about adding to the system delay. Both bundles are some of my favourite plugins, so I know I'd get my use out of them.

It's interesting that you still jumped on the promotion despite having one of the newest Mac Pro's. From what I've heard, the new Westmere models just smoke! I also noticed that you're using an SSD for your system drive. How is that working out? I'm considering doing the same thing.

Honestly, I was on PT LE for a couple of years, and when I made the jump to HD I couldn't afford the TDM plugs. I just ran with my Native ones. But now that the monetary sting of the jump to HD has worn off, I am beginning to invest in TDM plugs so I can finally get some more of the "good stuff" HD has to offer out of my system. Sure, the MacPro can handle the RTAS stuff, but why put any weight at all on the system if you don't have to? I honestly never bought any of the Waves stuff because it was just too expensive for me, even in the Native realm. When this new promotion came on and so much of the TDM stuff was actually cheaper than Native, I just had to jump. I am very happy to finally be using my core and accel cards to do more than just be a cable connector from my interfaces.

As far as the system drive goes, it is ROCK SOLID. I love it and will never go back to a conventional drive if I don't have to, if for no other reason than the boot time. Any restarts take a matter of seconds, not minutes, and I have had no errors or crashes of any kind. I would definitely recommend going with a high-end SSD like the OWC Mercury Extreme Pro that I have, though. I have heard some bad stuff about cheaper drives like the ones from Samsung. The bottom line is that once the price of these drives comes down enough, I will be replacing my 3 SATA audio drives with SSDs. I just couldn't afford to make them all SSDs when I bought the new Mac Pro. Hope this helps!

[Tom Hartman]

Hey so how big is your SSD system drive?

Because other than music apps, all I have on my startup drive is what comes with the mac, and maybe a dozen small apps...documents include iTunes and not a ton of photos....and my startup drive is at 290 gig. I think a 300 gig SSD drive would be about a million dollars or something. I just don't know how you guys are fitting everything on your startup drives when you hear people says "Just get a small SSD drive for your startup.."

?

Tom

[drumster]

Originally Posted by djjazzy41

Honestly, I was on PT LE for a couple of years, and when I made the jump to HD I couldn't afford the TDM plugs. I just ran with my Native ones. But now that the monetary sting of the jump to HD has worn off, I am beginning to invest in TDM plugs so I can finally get some more of the "good stuff" HD has to offer out of my system. Sure, the MacPro can handle the RTAS stuff, but why put any weight at all on the system if you don't have to? I honestly never bought any of the Waves stuff because it was just too expensive for me, even in the Native realm. When this new promotion came on and so much of the TDM stuff was actually cheaper than Native, I just had to jump. I am very happy to finally be using my core and accel cards to do more than just be a cable connector from my interfaces.

As far as the system drive goes, it is ROCK SOLID. I love it and will never go back to a conventional drive if I don't have to, if for no other reason than the boot time. Any restarts take a matter of seconds, not minutes, and I have had no errors or crashes of any kind. I would definitely recommend going with a high-end SSD like the OWC Mercury Extreme Pro that I have, though. I have heard some bad stuff about cheaper drives like the ones from Samsung. The bottom line is that once the price of these drives comes down enough, I will be replacing my 3 SATA audio drives with SSDs. I just couldn't afford to make them all SSDs when I bought the new Mac Pro. Hope this helps!

Thanks! Your experience and advice has been very helpful. While I'm at it, I may also consider upgrading my SoundToys bundle to TDM as well. The one thing about having an HD 2 system is that you almost need an HD 3 system to run a large session with exclusively TDM plugins. But then again, even if I had an HD 3 there would still be some plugins that I'd want to run as RTAS such as the Lexicon PCM Native Reverbs.

It's encouraging to hear that you're having great success using an SSD as your system drive. Perhaps that'll be the next purchase for my studio!

[djjazzy41]

Originally Posted by Tom Hartman

Hey so how big is your SSD system drive?

Because other than music apps, all I have on my startup drive is what comes with the mac, and maybe a dozen small apps...documents include iTunes and not a ton of photos....and my startup drive is at 290 gig. I think a 300 gig SSD drive would be about a million dollars or something. I just don't know how you guys are fitting everything on your startup drives when you hear people says "Just get a small SSD drive for your startup.."

?

Tom

Tom--
My system drive is a 240GB OWC Mercury Extreme Pro, and cost me $500. I have all my normal OSX stuff on it, as any new Mac would have. Additionally, I have PT (obviously), probably 20 or 30 plug-ins, and Adobe Production Premium CS5. All of my samples and sound libraries are kept on a different drive, as are all my audio sessions and video projects. To date, I am using less than 100GB of my system drive. If I end up adding a bunch of music to iTunes or something like that, I will just place it on the drive that has my samples so it won't occupy any space on the system drive. Bottom line is that 240GB should be plenty of room on my system drive to last me for a LONG time. By the time I run out of room, the drives will be cheap enough to replace with a larger one. Hope this helps!

[drumster]

I ended up upgrading both of my Waves bundles earlier this week and must say that I'm glad that I did. The price was very good, and working in HD is much more enjoyable now that I'm not burning so many voices using RTAS plugins on Auxes.

I'm currently demoing the SoundToys, TDM Effects bundle and may end up upgrading those from Native as well. EchoBoy is essential, and it would be great to be able to track through it in TDM format.

I've also been demoing the Eventide Anthology II bundle. No issues at all in PT 9.01, by the way. Although the GUI is dated, these plugins sound very good. Different than SoundToys, but very good in their own way. I'm not sure all of them will be very useful, but so far I like the Eventide Reverb, E-Channel and Ultra Channel. Actually, the Ultra Phaser is pretty cool too in a vintage sort of way.

What's the general consensus between these two FX bundles in 2011? Is there a good reason to have both? If I pick both of them up, I'm really getting into bed with TDM, so hopefully the investment won't be short lived.

[midnightsun]

I have been running the TDM versions of Sound Toys and Anthology II for some time and they are both great. There is certainly some overlap, but they seem like different animals to me. As far as effects go, Sound Toys is easy to use and gives me some great results. Anthology has great effects, but for me require a bit more thinking. Anthology also has the bread and butter plugins-- EQ, dynamics, and reverb that make it very versatile. However, I purchased Anthology II after I had already gotten used to using McDSP and Sonnox for EQ and dynamics. I just haven't invested the time with Anthology EQ and compression.