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  #1  
Old 12-13-2012, 11:18 PM
Infiltrator Infiltrator is offline
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Default Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Hi, does anyone know how much better the omni's clocking and/or conversion is with the following modification:

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=105

I don't really care about a pre mod but I thought the omni's conversion and clocking was already world class enough. So I'm lost now. And is there a noticeable enough imporvement to warrant getting either of the mods offered? And does avid still warranty and support the unit after this mod? Is it worth doing this?

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  #2  
Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Given the reviews of the HD line's audio quality, I would concentrate on better techniques, acoustics(is your room treated well) and mics, before I would worry about someone else's idea of an "improvement". Can you name a single hit song that became a hit because it was recorded thru "better converters"?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:50 AM
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There's way too much emphasis on converters. (And pres up to a point.)

Evaluate them side by side with a few others and choose which one you prefer. If you find another one vastly superior get it don't waste your time and money modding an inferior product. If you like it take it and get on with the show.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:16 PM
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Sounds good. Love my omni as it is. Got her up and running now. The converters are pro enough for me for sure.

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Old 12-28-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Actually I am still debating this.. Black Lion responded with after I shared some general industry opinions on Avid's hardware differences and similarities wih the older Digidesign hardware.

They explained to me that they can modify the Omni in a very beneficial way for me in which i will notice a difference because they say they can offer significant improvement to the clocking, analog path, and conversion processes. They claim to have have technology that is considerably better than what Avid offers in its stock units. As an example, they told me to take a look at their in house converter designs-- they say that few companies come close in terms of measured clock jitter and converter dynamic range.

They told me to compare designs that use the AK5394 converter-- they pretty much everyone gets about 115dB dynamic range out of it, yet they say they get 120dB unweighted, and that it's why Mutt Lange, Alison Krauss, Mike Shipley, Butch Walker, and Tony Maserati use BLA converters. They claim to offer advancements in technology that no one else has, and they claim that the difference is clearly audible.

They said that while the Omni has a great feature set, and has higher dynamic range conversion than something like the Profire 2626, they would not consider the clock "world class" (because I asked them if it is world class as people have been saying). They said it's the same clock that Digi used in the Mbox, 002, 003, 96IO, and HD boxes and that Measured jitter at the converter is typically around 20-50 nanoseconds, which has huge spikes that reach nearly 1 microsecond in the critical 1Hz and 10Hz bands. They said to compare this to the clocks that they can install-- such as the SP clock offers about 3-4 picoseconds of jitter at the converter, and the new XB clock which offers output jitter in the femtosecond range. They claimed that I will absolutely hear the difference between their clock and the stock Omni clock.

They then told me that there are some myths surrounding the Omni regarding conversion and a misconception from an improvement in the D/A and not the A/D. That A/D converter used in the Omni is the same A/D converter family found in the 003 (the CS53xx family of A/D chips) - in that it would a step down from the A/D chips used in the old blue HD boxes. And they told me to note that Avid specs the A/D dynamic range about 1dB lower than what the blue HD boxes offered.

They then explained that the D/A converter is based around a Texas Instruments PCM17xx DAC, which is the one converter component that's an improvement over what Digi was doing in the blue HD boxes.

They suspect that since the new boxes "sound better" on the D/A side than the old boxes did, everyone assumes there's a global improvement in the new designs' converter performance. But they say it's not quite so.

Anyway, they just told me that its merely their perspective, and to let them know if I have any other questions, and then to have a great day.

And hence my reason for coming back here with this scientific data given to me by Black Lion and am wondering what the response is now to this data and if an Avid representative also wants to chime in on verifying any of the information given to me about the Omni.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Given the reviews of the HD line's audio quality, I would concentrate on better techniques, acoustics(is your room treated well) and mics, before I would worry about someone else's idea of an "improvement". Can you name a single hit song that became a hit because it was recorded thru "better converters"?
Well said and very right on spot!
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

If they could change the pre to a 1073 replica I would personally go for it, otherwise it works great for me.
(I've never listened to the D/A convertors in mine)
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Can you name a single hit song that became a hit because it was recorded thru "better converters"?
Not converters alone, but Iv heard more than one demo of songs that reached #1 on the charts. I doubt the demos would have made it. They often lack the energy and quality of the final.

Every part and detail is important.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:02 PM
Infiltrator Infiltrator is offline
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdee View Post
Not converters alone, but Iv heard more than one demo of songs that reached #1 on the charts. I doubt the demos would have made it. They often lack the energy and quality of the final.

Every part and detail is important.
100% Irrelevant to the theme of scientific facts being presented in this topic regarding performance specs of hardware. Thanks for nothing.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Black Lion OMNI Modification any good???

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Given the reviews of the HD line's audio quality, I would concentrate on better techniques, acoustics(is your room treated well) and mics, before I would worry about someone else's idea of an "improvement". Can you name a single hit song that became a hit because it was recorded thru "better converters"?
100% irrelevant to the scientific facts presented regarding hardware performance and specs. Stick to the facts. You do not have any knowledge about whether my room acoustics, miking techniques, mics, or other equipment.
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