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Old 12-09-2012, 09:47 PM
Infiltrator Infiltrator is offline
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Default This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Hello, does anyone know what the biggest factor is in getting a final product sounding as clear and as huge as something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuGYB68DNfE

(and for the sake of argument, lets just assume that yes i can get a very good source recordings which I will explain later below).

I know this is just youtube audio but you can still tell this is an extremely huge sounding recording. Do you guys think the Avid Omni converters can sound as deep for the source prior to the cumulative effect of whatever else was added here in processing and mastering??

An online retailer told me its prolly 10,000 dollar converters in the mastering phase adding something that sounds huge.. and prolly having it processed by tape somewhere along the way. And then the guy said some crazy expensive tube EQ boosting the highs even up and beyond the 20 k range up to even 27 k boosted after processed by tape because he said our ears can hear harmonic content even in that range and processing in that range affects the range we do hear also (can UAD simulate this process well? or is it ultimately the crazy expensive converters then the real tape and real outboard gear then other crazy expensive converters converting it back to digital? Or am i completely misguided here?

but my question is how can converters add something? If one records through lets say Avid conversion and then sends for mastering to better converters later - how can that add anything to the sonic content?

Or can this be done with uad plug-ins or not even close? do you need a real tape machine for this and real outboard compressors and eqs or can the UADs achieve it? This mastering clarity on this is absolutely insane...

I guess i will look into researching who mastered this... but fundamentally from the ground up source I am about to hook up my new pro tools omni HD rig and some tube pres and /neumann and mojave condenser mics and dynamics for the cabs and take a stab at some serious recordings here because i do have faith in that gear to sound pretty big.

As for the pres for the vocs and all - i am going to be try some aphex pres - before going straight to my interface and nothing else before the interface as i assume UAD plugs will offer a nice touch after - or maybe not...

Electric Guitar recording:

SM57, MD421, and Using the Mojave for room tone off the diffusors for three channel mix, and a mahogany body electric guitar with maple neck rosewood fingerboard, body painted and back of neck painted (that is the metal sound - as the laquer-based paint on both the body and back of the neck fully painted cumulatively contribute to that chunky low end - EMG pickups, various tube amps and cabs

the 57 and 421 mics will each go into their own tube pres and converted by the omni - and the room mic will just go through one of the omni pres

The drums are just from Superior 2 since those are incredible.

Or should i skip the UAD thing and save money and just have it sent for both mixing and mastering? or can the UAD modeling cut it well for stuff like neve and tape sims?


Or am I completely missing some secret here that will prevent me somewhere along the way from achieving this.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:18 PM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Well I've been out of the music side of things for a while south could have changed

Back in the day meaning less than a decade it could have been a combo of a lot of things

On the converter side it is to get the absolute most critical listening tool. If things are printed digitally then converters don't have much to do with the chain

Mastering in itself is an art. Just like mixing.

Maybe 27k adds something in the mastering room but ultimately will get lost down the line

There are old school thoughts and those who come along and change things up and usher in new techniques.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:28 PM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

That online retailer doesn't really sound like he knows what he's talking about.

This sound has very little to do with mastering or super high grade converters.

Most of this is just proper recording techniques, good arrangement, and good mixing with appropriate use of effects.

Having a good converter like the Omni will definitely help whatever you're doing. But as far as plugins go, I would say most of this could even be done with the stock plugins that come with Protools.

It sounds like you've got some decent equipment, and assuming you've got good room acoustics going on, you should be able to record a pretty good quality sound.

The drum sound could most likely be achieved using samples. Unless you have a spectacular sounding room (most people don't) and gobs of good mics and preamps, you're better off using samples for something like this.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:50 PM
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Southsidemusic Southsidemusic is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Sounds xcitin' and all but link is DEAD!
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:42 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southsidemusic View Post
Sounds xcitin' and all but link is DEAD!
Played just fine here. Could be a copyright issue outside the US. Not to worry as it's just your usual over-distorted barely comprehensible metal piece. At least he didn't pick something from Death Magnetic!
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:00 AM
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Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

There are no sledge hammers in audio. Good productions are the cumulative effect and each and every step. That record sounds like it does because of this. Mastering may have (and likely) had little to do with it IMO. I bet the mix was bad ass coming in and Mastering was the final 10% as it should be.

So, each step has to considered and weighted and the subtleties of each step sometimes take years to figure out.

Have fun, it's a journey and don't expect to match that production at home or in a commercial studio anytime soon. Then again, maybe you will.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:15 AM
jmitchell1532 jmitchell1532 is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

I agree. Most of what you're hearing hear is a fantastic "mix." If I were you, I would research who mixed it, where it was recorded, learn about proper gain staging, etc.

A great mix needs little polishing in the final stage.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:34 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Exactly, a great mix doesn't require any changing by the Mastering process. A great song, well arranged, great sounding properly recorded instruments, a great properly recorded vocal performance, a great production approach and a great mix are what have the biggest impact on the quality of the sound of your track.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: This mastering job is INSANE!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
Exactly, a great mix doesn't require any changing by the Mastering process. A great song, well arranged, great sounding properly recorded instruments, a great properly recorded vocal performance, a great production approach and a great mix are what have the biggest impact on the quality of the sound of your track.
+1000 !!! However, even a great mix will have occasional level spikes, like a snare hit or vocal spike or whatever. A great mastering engineer will skillfully deal with these, to achieve a slightly hotter average level, without squashing down too hard on transients.
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