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Old 02-25-2021, 06:54 PM
mj66 mj66 is offline
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Default NBC Universal deliver ?

Getting elements ready for delivery to NBCU and their spec sheet lists this,
Channel 1-6 in 5.1
Channel 07 LT +12dB (PL2)
Channel 08 RT + 12dB (PL2)
Channel 09 M&E LT +12dB (PL2) (Fully Filled)
Channel 10 M&E RT +12dB (PL2) (Fully Filled)
Channel 11 LT +20dB (PL2)
Channel 12 RT +20dB (PL2)

Can someone tell me what the +12 and +20 refers to?

I am assuming 0dB on the meter is -20dB.

I see someone else asked this question many years ago and the answer was these are peak levels, but this does not make sense to me, why would they want a peak of +12 wasting 8dB of headroom?
If it is peak levels do I just lower the whole mix for the +20 or should it be remixed so peak hits the target and the mix still sounds correct at 85dB?

My understanding is they should be giving loudness and peak values.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by mj66; 02-25-2021 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:05 PM
mj66 mj66 is offline
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Default Delivering a feature to NBC Universal +12dB & +20dB

Sorry double post

Last edited by mj66; 02-25-2021 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 02-26-2021, 11:46 PM
Leverson Leverson is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a feature to NBC Universal +12dB & +20dB

Hi MJ, two posts below yours is this thread discussing this same question:

https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=414059

The +20 is your full-range theatrical mix, and the +12 is limited to -8db (+12 over reference level)

The limited mix allows them to bring it up to broadcast standards on their side.

As I recommended in the other thread, it's always good though to have a call with the distributor and chat over deliverables to make sure that is what they are expecting and just make sure everything is clear on the spec sheet. It's always a good idea to have a conversation with someone on the other side just to make sure!
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Old 02-27-2021, 04:18 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a feature to NBC Universal +12dB & +20dB

It would be interesting to know where all this is coming from.
It goes totally against ATSC and EBU guidelines for broadcast.


I thought we finally had a standard to mix to that worked and now the goalposts are being moved again.


I would question it, as I did and suggest a loudness based mix.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:31 AM
mj66 mj66 is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a feature to NBC Universal +12dB & +20dB

Thanks Leverson, I saw your post and I think you have it right! I copied my response in the thread you mentioned and am posting it here so it can be found by others searching on this topic.


Doing research and looking at the mix on the Universal Logo it looks like Leverson is completely correct, they want the loudness level (Dialog) to be the same as the original mix but limiting the peaks so the whole dynamic range is limited and will not go over -8dB. I can see this on the universal logo mix, the basic levels on the +20 and +12 were the same but the peaks were clipped a bit on the +12 mix.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Leverson View Post
I just wanted to reiterate from my post above, as I've delivered these to major studios. A +12 limited mix is the theatrical mix limited to +12 over reference (so -8dbfs). This allows the distributor to bring the mix up to TV deliverable levels on their side.

So instead of raising the average levels of your feature mix UP from theatrical (let's say for example -30db average) to average CALM act TV levels (-24 average in the US) INSTEAD you are bringing your limiter DOWN and clamping your peaks at -8db true peak.

It is NOT -24 average levels AND -8 peak.

I think the reason why some studios do this is it gives them the flexibility to deliver their films to various regions through their own internal pipelines. So they can bring the average up to -24db/-2 true peak for US TV, -23db/-1 true peak for European TV, Netflix or streaming to their own -27 dialnorm standards, and all the other many standards that are out there etc, without needing separate mixes for each, or a mix that tries to straddle the US/EU/streaming tolerances all at once.

Again, it's always good to clarify specs and have a discussion, as some distributors copy/paste without really understanding what they are asking for and why on their spec sheets, but a +12 limited mix is a real modern deliverable that I see from time to time for my theatrical deliveries.

EDITED TO ADD: honestly I hadn't seen it prior to about maybe a year or so ago, but I've had two feature projects since then list it on their spec sheet, and during our deliverables call were very clear they did not want an R.128 mix instead. A third one also had it listed on their deliverables, but during our deliverables call decided they'd rather have the traditional R.128. So when in doubt, always call and have the conversation!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Leverson View Post
Hi MJ, two posts below yours is this thread discussing this same question:

https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=414059

The +20 is your full-range theatrical mix, and the +12 is limited to -8db (+12 over reference level)

The limited mix allows them to bring it up to broadcast standards on their side.

As I recommended in the other thread, it's always good though to have a call with the distributor and chat over deliverables to make sure that is what they are expecting and just make sure everything is clear on the spec sheet. It's always a good idea to have a conversation with someone on the other side just to make sure!
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