Going crazy over sound-quality in PT vs Logic

[CME]

Originally Posted by Michael Zull

I recall hearing some mention in the OP about Logic being "louder" than PT is, and in my last post I didn't address it. However, recalling using Logic X on a few recent tunes, I can see how one might find that to be the case, and here's why.

I recently worked on a pretty vanilla rock/indie track, with an instance of Drum Designer, and five Amp Designer instances. It seems that the default output of the included VIs and modelers is really hot. I'd only fired up a drum track and two guitar tracks before I looked at the 2 buss and saw that it was sitting in the red nearly all the time, and the Drum Designer instance was clipping itself on the factory preset! The same thing happened on a dance track I was working on, after loading up just 3 or 4 VIs the whole session was just really hot, and I'd have to go in and start re-gain-staging all of the VIs and individual drums in Drum Designer.

So, if one is working mostly with the included instruments, the super-hot default output levels could lead one to believe that Logic is just "louder". It's not actually "louder" it's just a sum of it's "louder" default gain values.

Oh, and what is up with the tiny faders in the Logic mixer? They remind me more of short-throw console faders than the standard long-throws one would use during a mix. Being so short, the resolution when moving faders sucks. Yet another reason that, while Logic is a great DAW and has alot of strengths, it's workflow weaknesses really kill it.

I've never used logic, but from other discussions, I've heard it mentioned that it has a "normalize" option when bouncing your mix. So if you mix the same tracks and leave 3 dB of headroom on the master fader in both logic and pro tools, but have the "normalize" option turned on in logic, the logic mix will be 3 dB louder and "sound better". Just the way human hearing works.

[Michael Zull]

Originally Posted by CME

I've never used logic, but from other discussions, I've heard it mentioned that it has a "normalize" option when bouncing your mix. So if you mix the same tracks and leave 3 dB of headroom on the master fader in both logic and pro tools, but have the "normalize" option turned on in logic, the logic mix will be 3 dB louder and "sound better". Just the way human hearing works.

This is prior to bouncing the song, and even before putting any plugins on the 2 buss. I'm almost always using a limiter on the 2 buss when bouncing, and never bounce with the normalize function turned on.

[Brother Junk]

I've used both extensively & I find much the opposite as far as volume is concerned whether in the DAW or bouncing. If you are not clipping I find PT gives you much more volume. This is a comparison of Logic X, PT10, PT11.

I've also made my bones in the sound quality world designing & building high end car audio systems that have won several world championships judged solely on their sound quality, tonal balance, "realness"' in their instrument reproduction, imaging etc. Same thing with speaker building & design.

All things being equal except the DAW themselves, I find LX to be rather lifeless & flat compared to PT. It's minor, but to my ears, noticeable. I agree LX is a smash of a deal. But I both compose & edit/mix in PT bc of the above mentioned perceived sound differences I notice.

To each his own. If you like LX, run with LX. You don't need anyone here's approval.

I do think the volume thing you are noticing is due to something you are just not noticing. Unclipped, I find PT 10 & 11 to have a greater overall volume output.

[montreal]

Okay sorry to come back on it but if we can consider the "louder debate" point is today solved, what about the "pre-mixed.... process factory.... and more commercial sound" the original poster mentionned ?.........?

(please guys forgive me for my bad english)

[CME]

Originally Posted by montreal

Okay sorry to come back on it but if we can consider the "louder debate" point is today solved, what about the "pre-mixed.... process factory.... and more commercial sound" the original poster mentionned ?.........?



(please guys forgive me for my bad english)

The problem being, people have tried to prove that one daw sounds better than another. And it's never been done. The tests I've seen have nulled when there were no plugs involved and everything else equal. You start adding plugs, panning, volume automation, ect it gets more complicated to test. And that's the only way to really test.

IMO the room, instrument, player, and mic choice will alter the final product much more than a different daw.

[Lumin8]

I found this thread today because i too have been going nuts with this after recently getting Logic. I am a long time Pro Tools user 20+ i decided to try Logic Pro because some clients are using it exclusively and found i could get to my ideas and sounds with ease while learning the app. I LOVE Pro Tools so don't get me wrong. What i hate is seeing how fast my mixes come together in Logic without even using my board. In Logic sorry to say i am becoming happy with all i am doing. I have invested so much in my PT system with a 24 channel DCommand's 2 HDX cards only to find i can get better sounding mixes quicker in Logic. Don't really understand how this can possibly be... Any ideas out there? I much prefer the layout and ease of Pro Tools over Logic Pro.. however my results are what concerns me the most right now. Maybe someone has the solution to this dilemma that i am not aware of yet. I am all ears...

[Wall2Wall]

It's crazy, all that's in Logic for $199. I use it for production but have mixed a few songs in it recently. It has stuff like sidechain adc that is only availabe in pro tools if you spend $10k+ for an hdx rig. It's also very efficient and really good stock plugins. If I didn't have to interface with other PT projects I would track and mix in Logic. The layout n shortcuts will make sense. The marquee tool makes it behave more like PT.

But it also has its quirks and long time bugs. VCAs aren't really VCAs, etc.

[Lumin8]

Well would love to know what doesn't work but for now the sound is driving me home to a most peaceful place of ecstasy .. i almost don't care what issues might be there because the general results i am getting are pretty darn amazing. Plugins don't cause the whole mix to go out to lunch. I find much less interaction channel to channel when i do something. I don't shy away from an idea of using a plugin while listening to what might have fallen apart in my mix because of it. For the first time in a long time i express my ideas of creativity instead of trying to keep everything sounding at least decent while suppressing my ideas because of how i know it will change the outcome of a very carefully put together mix. In PT as my mixes grow bigger they have tended to sound noisy and less together... when in Logic the larger mixes sound as i would expect them to sound when i add something into the mix- Great !!. It is very freeing after a long long time of having to be so careful every step along the way. So why can't PT figure out how to be that too... I'm routing for whatever it takes to get there. Ears don't lie... techniques are exactly the same .. the sound is not.

[Wall2Wall]

I never got that, as far as sound. PT sounds amazing. So does Logic. So does Cubase. Never the "noisy thing" on any of them. My mixes probably come together faster in PT because I've used it daily since the PT Mix days.

Now the Logic forums are lacking for me. Usually folks that care about new instruments and color themes and less about mixing and techniques.

[safehaven1017]

I just posted a thread on this same subject! I'm recording electric guitar through an SM57 and it sounds quieter and more grainy/fizzy in Pro Tools! I want to know what's wrong because I love tracking and mixing in Pro Tools while I like making beats in Logic. I don't want to transfer everything back and forth all the time.