Help! Pro Tools FCP CD Levels

[moblues]

I've just finished mixing a cool no-lo horror flick at my home studio. I even had the privilege of getting to mix/compare a few scenes at a full blown soundstage as a favor from a friend and got a thumbs up. I'm basically an audio/musician type and this is my first film. I read Yewdall's book very closely and lurked this forum for information on dialogue and music levels.

The film was basically a "talkie" with lots of music a a some dynamic SFX thrown in here and there. I used the full dynamic range available on CD with dialogue in the "normal" range and peaks for loud SFX at -1 dbfs.

I sent a 48/24 wav file to the FCP editor to lay back to picture. When we got the DVD back that was to be sent to film festivals I was shocked. The overall level was lower and it sounded as if there was a brick limiter over the whole mix around -14. The whole mix had the life squashed out of it. The DVD was compared on the same system on which it was mixed. The editor doesn't know/recall doing anything to the audio mix. I think he may have used a preset or tweaked the overall level because the peaks where close to 0.

Is the problem with the metatags in the AC-3 encoding? If you export to QT does that automatically induce dynamic audio limiting as well as data compression? How can this be bypassed if it wasn't exported in FCP's Compressor? Codec's anyone? If I've got several peaks at -1dbfs is this screwing the whole mix?

Any thoughts or criticism would be greatly appreciated.

DH

[danijel]

First, it is normal that a DVD player (no matter if it's software or hardware) will lower the level by 4dB in playback if dialnorm setting of -27 was used (and that is probably the default in Compressor, but I don't know).
Second, check your DVD player's menus/settings for DRC (Dynamic Range Compression), and turn it off. Most players (both soft and hard) have DRC on by default. It might help if the editor sets the DRC metatag to 'Music Light' when compressing. Note - the DRC happens in the player, not during the compression/authoring.

[moblues]

I can see in Compressor where to set the Dialnorm to -31.

If the editor is using "make a quicktime movie" and selecting the codec in QT to export is there anyway to alter the DRC from there or can that only be done in Compressor which seems like a more elaborate export program?

[danijel]

Quicktime movies are played by quicktime player which doesn't introduce DRC. It only happens in DVD players.

If you checked the mix at a dub stage and the level was right, you should set the dialnorm to -27. If you set it to -31, then the dialog will be apparently louder (maybe the same as when you've mixed it), but it will be more overall DRC'ed by different DVD players.

[moblues]

It was my understanding that the -31 dialnorm setting in Compressor applies the least amount of DRC in CD players. Is this correct?

[moblues]

Sorry but I didn't fully understand your answer at first read so please disregard my last post.

Thanks for the reply.

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by moblues

I sent a 48/24 wav file to the FCP editor to lay back to picture. When we got the DVD back that was to be sent to film festivals I was shocked. The overall level was lower and it sounded as if there was a brick limiter over the whole mix around -14. The whole mix had the life squashed out of it.

Who did the DVD authoring?
And: Remember, peaks @ -1dBFs are really, really LOUD.

[TCDet]

Unlike Music, Film mix peaks at -14dbfs (good) to -6dbfs (hot)
However the post authoring person should be aware of per media output.

If you can re-calibrate -20dbfs = 0VU Cal-Playback 82-85 dbspl.
Re-process your mix, re send and ask for a reference DVD.
Also if you could get the mix encoded with something other than apples compressor.
Dolby-Tools or hardware.

You may also try sending the Music, Dialog & SFX stems for more flexibility in authoring.

Note: These are just my observations & POV.
Posty turned musician.

[moblues]

Thanks for your replies.

The editor simply requested a 2 mix. When questioned about the technical aspects of the out his reply was "I just do what I normally do." That was about the extent of his technical ability concerning audio in FCP. I do know the output wasn't in done in Compressor.

I've performed several A-B tests with dialogue levels and dynamic range of other DVDs. I'm fully aware that -1dbfs is really loud. There are just a few moments in the film during a scene where the dynamic range very briefly reaches that level during the passing of some low frequency information. The the dialogue is in line with other commercial DVD levels when checked prior to the authorization in Pro Tools. What's odd is the whole DVD seems quieter and squashed at the same time compared to other DVDs. That's why I was wondering about the DRC or maybe I need to back off the peaks.



I have FCP and if I can pick up a eSATA card somewhere I'm going to try and output a test myself. I have the film on an external HD but it won't read it through firewire.

Any other thoughts would be great.

Thanks