East West PT 11 crash issue

[benherron.rrr]

Hey,

I have being experiencing an incredibly annoying crash issue caused by East West Play 4, specificly pianos. When I load up a piano patch and begin playing I have found that after about 5 mins Pro Tools crashes leaving me with the "program not responding" window and therefore requiring a full system re-boot only for the same thing to happen again and I'm getting beyond sick of having good performances made redundant due to these crashes. I have tried adjusting the settings within play in an attempt to re-solve the issue, but lowering the engine quality, allocated memory and CPU usage I have found no resolution to the problem. Play performs very well, no clicks nor pops, it just randomly decides to give up. I have also tried re-installing play and even a complete system re-install to make sure everything is clean.

I'm not sure if this is just an issue with PT 11 or my computer with PT11, but I do know when I was working in 10 and even 9 everything ran really smooth, never missed a beat. I have even noticed that back then my computer and projects could handle almost twice as many VI's/Patches and plugins as it can in PT11, by the time I have a piano and a kit from BFD3 loaded it feels like PT is already feeling the strain, yet in 9/10 it was laughing telling me to throw more at it, given the 64/32 bit architecture difference I didn't expect this.

Here is a sandra repot if it helps. I'm running an Mbox pro and have seperate drives for samples, recording/projects and OS.


SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : Studio-PC
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : Dell Studio XPS 8100
Serial Number : DTM****
Chassis : Dell Desktop
Mainboard : Dell 0T568R
Serial Number : ..CN7360*********
BIOS : Dell A05 07/08/2010
Intel vPro : 6.00.31.1208
Total Memory : 8GB DIMM DDR3

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 860 @ 2.80GHz (4C 8T 2.93GHz/3.46GHz, 2.4GHz IMC, 4x 256kB L2, 8MB L3)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA1156

Chipset
Memory Controller : Dell Core (Clarksfield/Lynnfield) DMI 2x 2.4GHz (4.79GHz)
Memory Controller : Intel Core Desktop (Lynnfield) UnCore 2x 2.4GHz (4.79GHz), 2x 4GB DIMM DDR3 1.33GHz 128-bit

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : Samsung M378B5673FH0-CH9 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-10700U DDR3-1334 (9-9-9-25 4-34-10-5)
Memory Module : Samsung M378B5673FH0-CH9 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-10700U DDR3-1334 (9-9-9-25 4-34-10-5)
Memory Module : Samsung M378B5673FH0-CH9 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-10700U DDR3-1334 (9-9-9-25 4-34-10-5)
Memory Module : Samsung M378B5673FH0-CH9 2GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-10700U DDR3-1334 (9-9-9-25 4-34-10-5)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Dell Computer DELL IN2010N
(1600x900, 19.9")
Monitor/Panel : Dell Computer DELL IN2010N
(1600x900, 19.9")
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (112SP 14C 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit)
Compute Shader Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (112SP 14C 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit)
CUDA GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (112SP 14C 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit)

Storage Devices
WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B2 (640.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache) : 596GB (C:)
WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B2 (640.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache) : 596GB (D:)
LaCie d2Next-Quadra (1TB, SATA300) : 932GB (E:)
Generic- SD/MMC (USB2) : N/A (G:)
Generic- Compact Flash (USB2) : N/A (H:)
Generic- SM/xD-Picture (USB2) : N/A (I:)
Generic- MS/MS-Pro (USB2) : N/A (J:)
WDC WD10EARS-00MVWB0 (999.5GB, USB2/SATA300, 3.5") : 931GB (L:)
TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW TS-H653G (4.7GB, SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache) : 4GB (F:)
WD Virtual CD 1110 (700.4MB, USB2) : 668MB (K:)

Logical Storage Devices
Hard Disk (C:) : 596GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B2 (640.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache)
Recording (D:) : 596GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD6400AAKS-75A7B2 (640.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache)
Samples (E:) : 932GB (NTFS) @ LaCie d2Next-Quadra (1TB, SATA300)
Back Up (L:) : 931GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD10EARS-00MVWB0 (999.5GB, USB2/SATA300, 3.5")
Removable Drive (G:) : N/A @ Generic- SD/MMC (USB2)
Removable Drive (H:) : N/A @ Generic- Compact Flash (USB2)
Removable Drive (I:) : N/A @ Generic- SM/xD-Picture (USB2)
Removable Drive (J:) : N/A @ Generic- MS/MS-Pro (USB2)
Guitar Rig 5 (F:) : 1GB (UDF) @ TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW TS-H653G (4.7GB, SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)
WD SmartWare (K:) : 443MB (UDF) @ WD Virtual CD 1110 (700.4MB, USB2)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : Dell H57 LPC Interface Controller
LPC Legacy Controller 1 : ITE IT8720F
Audio Device : Dell P55/PM55/3400 High Definition Audio
Audio Codec : Realtek Semi High Definition Audio
Disk Controller : Dell ICH8R (ICH8) SATA RAID Controller
USB Controller 1 : Dell P55/PM55/3400 USB2 Enhanced Host Controller
USB Controller 2 : Dell P55/PM55/3400 USB2 Enhanced Host Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Dell VT6315 Series Firewire Controller
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)

Peripherals

Network Services
Wireless Adapter : NETGEAR WNA3100 N300 Wireless USB Adapter (802.11n (HT), AES-CCMP, 26Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 6.01.7601 (Service Pack 1)
Platform Compliance : x64

[musicman691]

I see a couple of problems. The first is ram. 8 gig isn't enough as the EW Pianos (assuming you're talking about the standalone package and not any in EWQLSO) are ram hungry. Remember that EW Play has it's own memory server. Try and get more memory.

Which drive are you using for PT to work with? It should be something other than your system drive and drive you store samples on. Partitions don't count.

What's up with these two drives:
"Guitar Rig 5 (F:) : 1GB (UDF) @ TSSTcorp DVD+/-RW TS-H653G (4.7GB, SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)
WD SmartWare (K:) : 443MB (UDF) @ WD Virtual CD 1110 (700.4MB, USB2)"
GR5 is software that must be installed on your system drive not a dvd.

You really need to get a real audio interface and not some gamer setup that comes with your computer.

[Southsidemusic]

And the WDC drive you have is a "Blue" power harddrive, all kind of Poison for Pro Tools. All green and Blue drives have shown to be very bad for running Pro Tools and as you only have that drive it will present a lot of errors,

Christopher

[benherron.rrr]

Thanks for the help :)

Guitar rig is installed on the computer, I just had the installation disc in the drive when I made the report. And the other WDC drive is for my network backup storage.

My recording drive is a completely separate HDD to my OS HDD and the hard drive I use for samples, not just partitions, and I do have an appropriate audio interface, an Mbox Pro (3gen).

Nice to know that the hard drives I have can be problematic with pro tools, I'll take a look into replacing these.

The problem I find with posting sandra reports is that the problems I am experiencing are shifted onto my computer's shortfalls and not the software. I have been using the same computer since PT8 and both PT9 and 10 gave me no problems what so ever, and seen as they were all 32 bit applications capable of utilizing 4gb RAM and I believe VI plugins could only utilize the same 4GB, yet I could run sessions with a full piano patch (from the seperate EW pianos) as well as multiple instruments from EW symphonic orchestra and a kit in BFD2/3 with plugins and recorded audio without missing a beat or any unexpected crashes. I assumed the 64bit architecture of PT11 would at least allow me do the same and then some, but it doesn't It feels like PT11 is half as capable of 10. Given that I have been running PT on the same computer for 4 versions now, have paid for all the upgrades and recently spent a good deal of money (for me) on upgrading to AAX 64 compliant plugins, I would have expected 11 to work just as smoothly and reliable as the last versions have.

No, I don't have the best computer out there, I would love to go out and buy a new all singing, all dancing mac pro tomorrow but unfortunately this is not a viable option for me at the moment but I still need to work with what I have got, my hardware may not be the best for the job in certain areas but it has not let me down. I will move back to PT10 if needs be, and write off the upgrade to 11 as a bad investment. I think my computer is capable, It has proven to be capable of what I need it to do many times over. But I don't understand why all of a sudden I can't seem to open a VI without getting an unexpected crash, It never happened before PT11 so I don't see why it should be happening now especially since PT11 should have access to more resources than before and this is why I am certain this is a software issue opposed to a hardware issue, even if my hardware isn't perfect.

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

And the WDC drive you have is a "Blue" power harddrive, all kind of Poison for Pro Tools. All green and Blue drives have shown to be very bad for running Pro Tools...

Know about the issues with Green drives - can you expand a bit on why a Blue drive would be 'poison' for PT?

[Southsidemusic]

Originally Posted by Rich Breen

Know about the issues with Green drives - can you expand a bit on why a Blue drive would be 'poison' for PT?

The blue drives are power saving drives and does not work well. Countless people have had issues with both Blue and green drives so not recommended at all for audio production.

I have tried once to use a Blue drive for sample library and we had several error msgs everytime we started using PT.

I would avoid those at all cost

Chris

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by benherron.rrr

Thanks for the help :)

Guitar rig is installed on the computer, I just had the installation disc in the drive when I made the report. And the other WDC drive is for my network backup storage.

My recording drive is a completely separate HDD to my OS HDD and the hard drive I use for samples, not just partitions, and I do have an appropriate audio interface, an Mbox Pro (3gen).

Nice to know that the hard drives I have can be problematic with pro tools, I'll take a look into replacing these.

The problem I find with posting sandra reports is that the problems I am experiencing are shifted onto my computer's shortfalls and not the software. I have been using the same computer since PT8 and both PT9 and 10 gave me no problems what so ever, and seen as they were all 32 bit applications capable of utilizing 4gb RAM and I believe VI plugins could only utilize the same 4GB, yet I could run sessions with a full piano patch (from the seperate EW pianos) as well as multiple instruments from EW symphonic orchestra and a kit in BFD2/3 with plugins and recorded audio without missing a beat or any unexpected crashes. I assumed the 64bit architecture of PT11 would at least allow me do the same and then some, but it doesn't It feels like PT11 is half as capable of 10. Given that I have been running PT on the same computer for 4 versions now, have paid for all the upgrades and recently spent a good deal of money (for me) on upgrading to AAX 64 compliant plugins, I would have expected 11 to work just as smoothly and reliable as the last versions have.

No, I don't have the best computer out there, I would love to go out and buy a new all singing, all dancing mac pro tomorrow but unfortunately this is not a viable option for me at the moment but I still need to work with what I have got, my hardware may not be the best for the job in certain areas but it has not let me down. I will move back to PT10 if needs be, and write off the upgrade to 11 as a bad investment. I think my computer is capable, It has proven to be capable of what I need it to do many times over. But I don't understand why all of a sudden I can't seem to open a VI without getting an unexpected crash, It never happened before PT11 so I don't see why it should be happening now especially since PT11 should have access to more resources than before and this is why I am certain this is a software issue opposed to a hardware issue, even if my hardware isn't perfect.

The reason Sandra reports show hardware rather than software is because you need to have a good foundation on which to work and if the computer is shaky a Sandra will show that. You're making a fatal mistake in thinking that just because your computer worked okay with earlier versions of PT it should work okay with PT11 and that's not necessarily so.

[benherron.rrr]

The thing I find hard to understand is why every problem that occurs in Pro Tools seems to be pushed onto the end-users set-up. As far as I'm concerned If my hardware meets the software's requirements it should work consistently, unfortunately we don't all have million pound studios, some of us have to work from the bottom up and try to make the best of what money we have to spend on equipment and even then, I aren't exactly asking my computer to handle massive post projects. Avid are quite happy to sell me expensive software with "Industry Standard" stamped all over it, I thought professional tools were supposed to be built like a rock to insure they are consistent, after all I buy and use these tools to better my workflow and to have the reliability so that I'm not letting clients down and as it stands now I could have done a lot of work with the time I have spent trying to resolve these issues, are avid going to send me a check to cover my wasted time? no.

And to be honest, I find it annoying that I have come on here to try to get some sound help/advice from people who know better than me, but all that is given is a load of reasons why my hardware isn't the best, I mean what is this, gearslutz or something?

I agree, blue drives probably aren't the best and I could do to upgrade my RAM or even better buy a new machine, but for the time being I do not have the resources to do so and need to make what I do have workable. I just want a little help getting things going, music is the one thing that pretty much keeps me alive, I love it and what I do more than anything, but the issues I'm having with Pro Tools are wearing me down, I've lost too many perfect takes to these problems.

[Southsidemusic]

I am sorry that you feel we are hard on you but when you say you want help and help is given you can't close your eyes and say - I can't afford a working system so Avid is at fault for not making a DAW that works for everyone. The System requirements from Avid is the minimum for a working system and if you don't have that your setup won't work with Pro Tools, It isn't Avids fault that some manufacturers make powersaving and underspec'ed hardware that don't work with Pro Tools. I do feel your pain and dissapointment but getting annoyed at the people who knows how to get you up and running won't help your cause.

To use Pro Tools (Industry Standard) means you have to have a Good working system, Using less than what some developers require will not work and if we say what you need to change something, that is probably because we know that that particular gear will just cause issues for you, Lots of members here don't have million dollar studios, in fact there are a select few who have that and the rest have basic setups and working everyday with those setups. The difference is they have invested in gear that they know will do the Job correctly so changing a few harddrives and getting a memory stick that meets your needs won't break the bank if you have an income on your studio (you mentioned clients)

I hope you take this the right way and see why we give you the info we do and it has nothing to do with calling anyone out or saying your studio isn't worthy, just that PT requires a few tweeks and the correct harddrives and thats about it

Best of Luck
Christopher

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

The blue drives are power saving drives and does not work well. Countless people have had issues with both Blue and green drives so not recommended at all for audio production.

I have tried once to use a Blue drive for sample library and we had several error msgs everytime we started using PT.

I would avoid those at all cost

Chris

I believe only the 'Green' drives have specific power saving features (ala napping) which cause issues with Pro Tools. From what I can tell, the difference between blue and black is down to max throughput, expected lifetime, and max available cache. While no doubt the black drives are preferred for these reasons, I see nothing in the blue line that would specifically be an issue for Pro Tools.

Would love to see some actual technical data that would indicate why the blue series might be a problem.

best,
rich