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  #1  
Old 06-05-2012, 12:30 AM
LawMan2012 LawMan2012 is offline
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Default How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Im using PT10 on a mac. Im working with some guitar and bass tracks that are off tempo with the click. What's the best way to line them up in PT?

I tried using elastic audio, quantize, but it didn't seem to work.

How can I fix the tracks without having to re-track?
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:23 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

I do it with Elastic audio, but do it manually(not using quantize). Quantize is fine if the parts are totally simple so you can get the right warp markers, but sometimes you need to right-click on the audio and select Elastic Properties, and ease back the sensitivity(so you see fewer warp markers). First I would work on just the bass, and if you have any drums or looped audio in the session, put the bass track below something that can give you a visual reference. Then, after the bass is tightened up, start working the guitar track. When you do this, it may help to lock a marker at each side of the screen so you don't move stuff you can't see(Ctrl-Z is your best friend here). The idea is to select the warp markers that belong on the grid, and moving them. The next trick is knowing when to move ONLY that marker, vs locking several markers away, so that a larger area is stretched. Sorry I can't explain it better, but its really a matter of trial and error, and getting skilled at doing it(its not something you master the first time out of the gate).
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:41 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

It's quicker to retrack, but only if you use better players! If you are stuck fixing what you have, the only way to get it right is to go through each part note-by-note, soloed with the drums. Assuming the drums are solid. It can be tedious but I actually think it's kind of fun.
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2012, 07:53 AM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Retracking is usually the best option. If you are either stuck with what you have or stuck with struggling talent, well, then, make do.

If you are on a Mac, it's worth the $199 for Logic just for the Flex time (Elastic Audio equivalent) feature alone. It does a better job than Pro Tools Beat Detective/Elastic Audio for quantizing audio.

Export the audio and bring it back into Pro Tools and finish mixing.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgizL...eature=mh_lolz
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:17 AM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

+1 to albee's post. Quantizing is not what badly played guitar and bass tracks need. Doing it manually should work. You don't need Logic for that.
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:53 AM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
+1 to albee's post. Quantizing is not what badly played guitar and bass tracks need. Doing it manually should work. You don't need Logic for that.
Sure, you don't need Logic for that, but if doing it manually and automating via Logic achieve the same result, the question becomes is $199 worth your time?
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:27 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

The point is that you have to look at the complexity of the performance and fix only what needs tweaking. Automating just blindly put's the whole thing on the grid. That may work for simple eighth notes but anything more complicated or subtle will probably get trashed.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:55 PM
stpete111 stpete111 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by getz76 View Post
Retracking is usually the best option. If you are either stuck with what you have or stuck with struggling talent, well, then, make do.

If you are on a Mac, it's worth the $199 for Logic just for the Flex time (Elastic Audio equivalent) feature alone. It does a better job than Pro Tools Beat Detective/Elastic Audio for quantizing audio.

Export the audio and bring it back into Pro Tools and finish mixing.

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgizL...eature=mh_lolz
I just bought Logic last week because I thought the price was unbeatable and I wanted all the Apple Loops. I didn't know much about Flex Time but now I'm really glad I bought it. Thanks for the heads-up!
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  #9  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:17 PM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerF View Post
The point is that you have to look at the complexity of the performance and fix only what needs tweaking. Automating just blindly put's the whole thing on the grid. That may work for simple eighth notes but anything more complicated or subtle will probably get trashed.
That is completely untrue. You can mark the areas that need adjustment relatively easily. Watch the video above. The whole process takes very little time and produces very musical results. I never used the Beat Detective/Elastic audio approach because I didn't like the results, but Flex time works wonderfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stpete111 View Post
I just bought Logic last week because I thought the price was unbeatable and I wanted all the Apple Loops. I didn't know much about Flex Time but now I'm really glad I bought it. Thanks for the heads-up!
Cheaper than most plug-ins. Check out the comp'ing feature in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GFqM...e_gdata_player

Kills.
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2012, 09:04 PM
janmuths janmuths is offline
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Default Re: How to correct tempo issues with guitar and bass tracking

Options in order of best result:

1) retrack



( nothing else for a while )





2) Beat detective - works quite well if the material has clear transients (pointless on high-gain GTRs). The trick is to not fix every single note, but only the 1 of the bar at first. Then listen again and fix only the notes that are still wrong.

3) Elastic Audio: Go to warp view, warp only the first note of the bar. Listen again... like what I said above.

4) TCE trimmer: separate notes first, then trim-stretch-compress. The TCE trimmer is audible quickly. If you don't get the right result immediately make sure to UNDO and try again. Avoid to TCE-trim a TCE-trimmed file (Use TCE only one time per region)

To my ears, flex-time in logic does not sound better than Elastic Audio, certainly not than Beat Detective. But let your own ears decide.

Hope this helps.

Jan
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