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#1
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Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Hello All..
this is probably a subject that's been done to death.. but I sure as hell can't find a way around it.. Maby somebody can shed some light on this for me.. I've taught myself a great deal about using protools, and about recording.. but as of yet I only know enough to be dangerous.. I'm in the process of recording drums for a band.. I purchased an Alesis DM5, and a Set of DDrum Pro Triggers. I'm recording Midi along with 11 tracks of audio.. using a Digi002 Rack, and an M-Audio Octane connected via ADAT lightpipe. This is may be overkill.. but I'd rather have the source and not need it, than.. yatta yatta.. Everything is recording smoothly.. and to the drummer's credit.. he's only off within milliseconds.. but he is off enough for me to want to Quantize the midi to the grid.. When I quantize the midi, and play back the sound through Battery3.. the result is crisp, perfectly timed hits... the only problem is that the overheads captured the drums too.. so I'm getting something that sounds like a poorly set delay.. ...How do I get around this? I'm a Nube to beat detective.. and so far Quantizing overhead mic recordings has proven to be one step away from the most painful thing I've ever endured.. Any suggestions would be MOST GREATLY appreciated.. Cheers, RKN |
#2
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Only thing I can suggest is, dump the overheads and either overdub them or paste in new sampled cymbals and then buss the entire kit to 1 of 2 places. either to a good convolution reverb to make the kit SOUND like it was all played in a room(this has worked great for me with a Roland TD10 kit) or send the mix to a pair of speakers in a good-sounding room and toss up a pair of room mics to record the room ambience. Another possible solution is to find sections of the performance that did not need quantizing, and paste those onto the trouble spots. Maybe Beat Detective could grab the groove of the new tracks and force it onto the overhead tracks?
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#3
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
I deal with this problem frequently. Here's what I do:
Set a limiter on the overhead mic tracks. Set the sidechain input for the limiter to the audio drum tracks (bus appropriately). You should hear an effect where any drum hits nearly silence the overhead track for a few milliseconds. If you notice the effect too much - which I doubt you will in a complete mix - try adding some reverb to cover the pumping. I typically do this when I've used Sound replacer on the toms and snare and don't want the snare and toms to sound in the overheads. It should also work in your situation. But you may have to to fiddle a little bit with re-recording the overheads to a new track. You'll want the limiting to be triggered by the flawed drum performance. Let it play to trigger the limiting and rerecord the overheads to a new track. Then, mute the flawed performance and play the newly recorded overhead track to your midi quantized drums. Good luck.
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#4
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Two very good suggestions. Thank you both very much.. I have considered replacing the symbols w/ sequenced symbols.. The DKFH EZDrummer kit has fantastic samples. I may steer away from replacing all the sounds though, simply because I'd like to maintain a decent amount of the "Human" quality of the performance.. the quantizing is just to keep the pace of the music as straight forward as possible..
I'd really like to try the Side Chaining option.. but where as I'm a nube with beat detective.. I've only heard hearsay of side chaining.. so I'll have to do a bit of research for my part. Any links, or forum threads on side chaining you guys might recommend? |
#5
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Not using Midi at all..I'd just like to ask you..if the drumkit is already printed, why don't you try to edit manually to the grid, specially if the performance is close.
If you chop and copy/paste/nudge the entire kit as an edit group, there should not be slippage between the tracks. IMO & experience, that is a more natural way of approaching the drumkit/performance. And..you'll still be able to use the replacement method on the individual tracks with Sound Replacer or Drumamgog. happy tooling, a
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#6
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Well.. it's mostly a learning experience at this point.. so I'm trying to figure out how to make everything work with Midi in the picture. Plus.. it's a pretty decent selling point to be able to tell you're average weekend warrior musician that you can make their drum set sound like Vinnie Paul's with the click of a button..
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#7
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
not to hijack your thread Ryan, but you could always make the drummer simply redo the take until everything is perfect and learn to play properly. that midi stuff can be a blessing or a curse seriously as I am learning as well right now. I think I'm ditching it for good old fashioned drums personally but goodluck with everything.
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#8
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
Quote:
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#9
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
You can use the LE version of Beat Detective to quantize all the drum tracks at once. It's not that difficult once you get the hang of it. Search "Beat Detective work around".
Is it possible to treat the MIDI track(s) as drum tracks with respect to Beat Detective? If so, you can use Beat Detective, and conform the hits, both real and MIDI, to the grid by, say, 80% instead of 100% (which would be perfect). Check out the free tutorials mentioned in the Beat Detective thread in the TDM forum. It refers to multi-track Beat Detective, but as I said, there's a workaround for the LE version. Good luck!
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#10
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Re: Quantized Triggered Drums w/ Live overhead recording..
I took everyone's advice to a certain extent. I still used triggers.. I also used beat detective on specific areas of the overheads.. and I cut the overheads together with the toms to keep them together..
Here's the unprocessed tracks.. Unprocessed and here's what I've done so far.. Test the guitar is just a scratch track.. line in from a Line6 Pod Pro.. I didn't modify it at all.. so it's a bit lacking. |
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