Mbox 2 mini Windows 7 PT 12

[PhilG]

So I have an Mbox 2 mini and I am trying to see if any windows users have gotten it to work with PT 12. From what I have heard off Avid it might work it might not. I need a definite answer before I pledge to pay for it.

Specs:
i7 4790k @4.0GHz 4 core, 8 threaded
16GB Ram DDR3 1600
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Also I plan to be using Pro Tools mainly to ReWire Reason 8.3.2 and above into it but with PT 11 I have major performance issues using ReWire More info here. Are the same issues still present in PT 12 with ReWire.

Can I use my windows sound drivers with Pro Tools 12 or 11 and if so how?

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by PhilG

So I have an Mbox 2 mini and I am trying to see if any windows users have gotten it to work with PT 12. From what I have heard off Avid it might work it might not. I need a definite answer before I pledge to pay for it.

Specs:
i7 4790k @4.0GHz 4 core, 8 threaded
16GB Ram DDR3 1600
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Also I plan to be using Pro Tools mainly to ReWire Reason 8.3.2 and above into it but with PT 11 I have major performance issues using ReWire More info here. Are the same issues still present in PT 12 with ReWire.

Can I use my windows sound drivers with Pro Tools 12 or 11 and if so how?

Check and see if WASAPI/Windows Audio Device is available for playback engine. If not, you can always use ASIO4ALL.

[PhilG]

Originally Posted by Benoni

Check and see if WASAPI/Windows Audio Device is available for playback engine. If not, you can always use ASIO4ALL.

I'd thought I'd try ASIO4All with the issue I am having with PT11 and ReWire performance. So unplugged Mbox restarted, loaded pro tools, would not start with on board sound card. Installed A4A restarted, loaded PT11 recognised A4A. With Reason ReWired it has slightly less performance issues than the Mbox does but still Total Usage is still spiking and causing unusable trouble.

I believe the ReWire plug-in must be fecked. Its the only thing there's issue with. I tested audio projects with the Mbox and with no problems PT 11 behaves.

I have to say though the difference in sound quality with A4A compared to the audio I get from the Mbox is crazy. I was going through my sample library that I use and I could hear all sorts of things that were not there before! Why is PT defaulting to 512 H/W buffer size anyway I have never seen that before with 8LE I could get 4096 buffer size.


I don't see an option for uninstalling PT11 from my system I thought reinstalling would have fixed the bother I am having but it hasn't. I had to Uninstall ProTools with CCleaner! It would be great if any users here could tell me if the same ReWire issues (explained here) will carry over to a PT12 install. It will be going against every fibre in me to pay for 1 month of 12 just to find out in 30 seconds that doesn't work. I know that I can always import the audio into PT and use it the that way but I call BS on that. I would rather not use Pro Tools altogether than use it without the full capabilities that Pro Tools claims it can do i.e. Rewiring Reason the co founder of ReWire.

[The Weed]

Make sure your onboard soundcard is the default for Windows sounds/audio and the Mbox is only for Pro Tools.

[PhilG]

Iv'e gone through that whole process. Here's the issue with 11 I am having.

Okay for the life of me I don't know why this is even happening. I am using the PT 11 trial version with an Mbox 2 mini and rewiring Reason 8.3.2 into an instrument track no other Plugs being used.

My PC specs are:

Windows 7 Pro 64bit
Intel i7 4790k 4 core, 8 threaded @4.00GHz
Corsair Vengeance 2x8 dual 16gb DDR3 1600

First off It took me a few hours to figure out why PT was not seeing my midi devices and with the help of a couple of threads on here I eventually got it to recognize them. I am using the trial version of PT because I am a previous user of PT 8 LE and need to upgrade and use Pro Tools mainly Rewiring reason 8.3.2 for better project flow, well that's the plan! I have absolutely no problems when I use Reason standalone and the project I have loaded doesn't even use up any resources in my system.

I spent a few hours pulling the hair out of my head trying to change the H/W buffer size in PT other than the default 512. I managed to get PT to use 1024 as buffer size in the play back engine settings after seeing a thread saying to disable the Mbox as a soundcard for system sounds. 1024 is the max it can do as its double the default 512. When the Mbox is disabled for windows sounds in pro tools, after a restart I have the option of setting a new H/W buffer size up to 4048. After PT restarts its back on the default 512 buffer and its just an infinite loop of trying to set it to a different buffer size. The Mbox in Reason has no troubles using any buffer size up to 4048 so it is capable of it! I read a thread here saying to disable USB hub power management settings but I don't even have that option.

I stopped trying to do the impossible. Now this is an even bigger problem the performance I am getting with pro tools with reason rewired is absolutely terrible. As I am typing this PT and reason are open in the background the total CPU usage from the system usage in PT is peaking to 42%. Cores 1-3 0% Cores 6-8 0% Core 4 is peaking at 23% and 5 to 8% And Memory at 8%. Total CPU usage from windows task manager peaks to 4/5% and 5.27 GB loaded RAM. Core 4 is showing zero usage! When I move the mouse into the Pro Tools window total System Usage spikes to 76% from what I can see cores 4+5 spike with it but increase by around 5%. WTM shows no increases! When I press play in in Pro Tools Cores 4 and 5 are the only cores being used and total System Usage Peaks @93 to 100% an is getting overloaded. This performance I am getting is worse than 32bit Pro Tools 8 LE with Reason 32 bit rewired into it and every plug-in I have loaded into the project.

Pro Tools is not using any of my other resources available and the only reason I am testing this version of PT 11 is to purchase a perpetual licence. What is the deal here? AAE error -9073 when I previewed this post!

Is there any sort of fixes for these very obviously incorrect system usage stats and unusable software bugs. Has anybody experienced this before? Help very much appreciated.

Update: I posted in PT12 forum to see if anyone had success with PT12 Mbox 2 And windows 7 got a reply to try ASIO4All to bypass The Mbox altogether. I have tried ASIO4All with the PT11 install and it works with Reason ReWired also. The Issue of terrible performance with Reason rewired in PT11 still persists but it is ever so slightly not as bad as it is with the Mbox. The buffer still defaults to 512 samples and I have the option to use 1024. I have to say though the difference in sound quality is immense major difference than using the Mbox. I was going through my sample library and could hear all sorts of things in the samples I didn't even now existed.

Just as a note I have used the Reason 8 stress test song and my pc had no problems playing it. If you're not familiar with it each bar on the sequencer in reason doubles up the same copied track and therefor uses twice the amount of resources for your system. My pc got to 0:01:13:747 which is one of the best results from those who posted in the Reason Talk forums.

UPDATE: I just followed the Avid optimization guide for Pro Tools 11 and at first I thought it solved the problem but after changing H/W buffer sizes I found that it just made it worse a lot worse. When Pro Tools launch's the Reason ReWire plug-in in system usage it was definitely showing to be using more cores than it had been and my buffer size was set to 256. When I changed the buffer size to 1024 system usage showed it using only core 4 and that was peaked to 56% but total usage was peaking to 75/80%. I changed the buffer size to 64 and Total peak usage was 100% in the red but the full bar on total usage didn't fill the meter, it looked like it was on maybe 5% but said 100%. None of the cores showed any increase in usage all said 0%. Pro Tools became unresponsive and I had to close from windows task manager. I did notice that Pro Tools is using double the amount of RAM though.

Okay I have had the idea of starting Reason first and then PT 11 so they are both in standalone mode. Using A4A as the soundcard. I tried putting reason ReWire on and instrument track and knew it would not work but was worth a shot at least. There is no performance issues when Reason and PT are open in standalone what so ever. In fact the system usage in PT doesn't even move! The question I challenge you with is this.

How do I get the audio from Reason using its many available outputs into tracks in Pro Tools using a go between program to transmit the audio into pro tools. Are there any free programs that Pro Tools will recognize that except audio inputs from reason. I can use Blue Cat's Patchwork for VST's.

Are there any other free programs I can test that can be rewired to pro tools I have to rule out if ReWire in pro tools that is the problem or if its Reason causing the problem.

Here's the monitor capture of the problem but please note the video doesn't fully give the respective issue as it was captured on the computer running PT and interfering with usage too. The quality of the video is very bad but you can just make out whats going on. You can skip to 3-5 mins to see PT system usage. The Capture software is not making that much of a difference maybe 5% overall usage if I had to guess.
https://youtu.be/BJD0rG2U7aM

[PhilG]

Just tonight I decided that the best course of action would be to just purchase a 1 month subscription to 12 and with the help of a lovely sales rep from Avid I was reassured that I could be issued with a refund if tech support fails to find or resolve problems if they are needed.

The Mbox 2 mini does indeed work on my system with 12 and for the most part I was happy with that. On the other hand the same issues I was getting with performance of ReWire with the 11 trial are present in 12 that's a nail in the coffin!

Now though I am in the club as far as Avid are concerned and should be receiving the support I have had to pay for. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of the cause with the help of support so I will be updating this thread so that others can see it and if it helps them well and good.

I decided to not let this get the better of me!

I have maybe gotten on to something with the regards to rack extensions in reason. They definitely have a negative impact on system usage in Pro Tools. I Deleted all the RE inserts in the project I was testing and usage goes down quite a bit but still with no RE in the project system usage is still way to high for reasonable performance. In logical forms of reasoning the one thing that Pro Tools is not doing that it should be doing is using all cores if it was I do not think there would be a problem!

Some moral support from the community would help me help you!

[PhilG]

Update:

I had a remote session today with Avid and it turns out I might be the first person to report this issue to them because they have no other performance issues like this in their database. The one thing that I thought was going to be the problem was the Mbox 2 Mini. Avid could not put fault in it because other soundcards that PT 12 can use on my pc are giving the same problem. As is Asio4All.


It would be great if anyone on here would be willing test this issue on Windows 7 64bit with Reason 8.3.2 ReWired in Pro tools 11 or 12 as its the same problem in both. If it can not be reproduced that would also be great because it will narrow the field and put it down to something on my system which might be easier to solve.

I don't know if it as issue on mac's or not but that would be good info too!

If you need further details I can supply them (free of charge)