Strange sync problem

[uno1234]

Hi
Strange problem, maybe someone can help me solve it.

Scenario 1: Load a 29.97 Quicktime movie that a client brought into Virtual VTR, first converting it to a DV Pro NTSC 720x480 Quicktime movie. I then load the same movie into Pro Tools, setting both to start at 1 hr exactly. When I click on a specific timeline location in Pro tools, both the VVTR TV image and the Quicktime window show the exact same frame. MTC, MMC, and house blackburst are locking the two systems together.

Scenario 2: Client gives me a Digibeta tape. Capture the tape with Final Cut Pro through my AJA Kona card using 9pin serial control for sync. Export the file (not the sequence, just the file) as a DV Pro NTSC 720x480 Quicktime movie using Quicktime Conversion out of the file menu in FCP. I then load that file into both Pro Tools and VVTR, set to start at 1 hr. However, in this case, clicking at a location in the Pro Tools timeline shows that the video in Pro Tools Quicktime window is 1 frame OFF the VVTR picture on the TV. If I set the VVTR picture to start at 00.59.59.29, then everything lines up.

No other settings have changed. There is no offset in Pro Tools or VVTR. There is nothing special about the "problematic" Quicktime, just that I loaded it from a tape. This happens with every movie file that originates from a tape through final cut.

What gives? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

[philper]

Latency in your capture routine?

Philip Perkins

[minister]

verify that your SEQUENCE SETTINGS in FCP are correct.

it defaults to DROP FRAME! and its....A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G!!!

and the Timestamp -- apple-T -- is correct in VVTR ... both say 29.97.

it defaults to 25 FPS and its....A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G!!!

[uno1234]

Thanks for the responses.

Here's the thing... if there is a sync problem between VVTR and Pro Tools, why would the way I capture in FCP affect it? Obviously there is something going on with the capture in FCP, but it is so strange because the same file is loaded into both PT and VVTR.

Yes, the frame rates match on PT and VVTR. I am not using a sequence in FCP, I am just capturing and exporting from the bin. I have confirmed that the movie is in 29.97 non-drop when in FCP.

[minister]

i am not an FCP expert.

when you launch FCP, you get a Sequence. it will have default capture settings. it defaults to drop frame. would this cause your conflict? doubtful...

UHm...

so when you captire it in FCP, and you click on 01:00:00:00 in FCP it is correct. right?

but when you click on the FCP-captured QT in PT, VVTR has to be set to 00:59:59:29 to get it to match??

and when you hit play, it is in sync?? for the whole time?

and everywhere -- PT, VVTR, and in the Caprture Sequence is 29.97 non-drop?

[TVPostSound]

FCP capture is a frame delayed, there is an option in the capture window to offset it.
Its very common with FCP.

What your client brought in was created in FCP, right?? So there would be no error there.

[kptkarl]

I use a keyspan 9-pin serial connection and have had to set capture offsets in FCP using the keyspan, which varies depending on the VTR. I'm not sure of the AJA but you may want to check that as well as the capture offset mentioned by DIAFXMX.

[uno1234]

i am not an FCP expert.

when you launch FCP, you get a Sequence. it will have default capture settings. it defaults to drop frame. would this cause your conflict? doubtful...

UHm...

so when you captire it in FCP, and you click on 01:00:00:00 in FCP it is correct. right?

but when you click on the FCP-captured QT in PT, VVTR has to be set to 00:59:59:29 to get it to match??

and when you hit play, it is in sync?? for the whole time?

and everywhere -- PT, VVTR, and in the Caprture Sequence is 29.97 non-drop?

Everything is set to non drop. I am not using a sequence in FCP. I capture the file in FCP, click the file name in the bin, and choose "export using quicktime conversion". The actual file was captured from 01.00.00.00 to 01.00.31.00. I export as a DV Pro, as described in my first post.

When I load the movie into VVTR, there is no timecode reference. I have to choose to reset the TC ref to 1 hour, non-drop frame. I load that same file into Pro Tools, open the Quicktime window, and the two identical videos are 1 frame offset. (But again, a quicktime that was not captured with this method is in sync.) When I hit play with VVTR TC Ref set to 00.59.59.29, the two systems stay in perfect sync. It's almost as if VVTR is adding an extra frame to the picture. But again, only when it comes from my deck through FCP!

Stop the madness!

[uno1234]

FCP capture is a frame delayed, there is an option in the capture window to offset it.
Its very common with FCP.

What your client brought in was created in FCP, right?? So there would be no error there.

I have noticed this sometimes, actually. But then wouldn't both the Quicktime in Pro Tools and the Quicktime in VVTR both be 1 frame off? And thus, in sync?

I should also mention that FCP generally syncs fine. I load from tape and layback to the deck all the time, and everything stays in sync.

What my client brought in was created with an Avid, converted to DV Pro using Quicktime Pro. And it was fine.

[minister]

THXRX is referrring to the 'Capture Offset' in FCP. pull up the PDF for FCP and do a search. it tells you how to deal with it.

i understand what you are saying. you capture a QT in FCP, put in VVTR AND PT, park on 01:00:00:00 in PT and the QT as played out VVTR is off by a frame. right?

i'd check your Capture settings first.

but now i am going to bed.