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  #1  
Old 06-06-2016, 03:47 PM
egyptmatta egyptmatta is offline
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Default Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

I couldn't find any info on this except a little in the manual. I am a composer who uses Vienna Ensemble Pro extensively and I am attempting a switch from Cubase to PT but I'm running into a potential issue (at least for me). Articulation/Patch switching particularly with my Spitfire BML libraries. I don't want to do key-switching because I don't want to see that in the score, there isn't anything like Cubase's expression mapping so it won't be easy to know what patch is up via Pro Tools and it means I have to have multiple tracks because there are so many articulations. Ideally I'd be using CC32 / Program Change. Pro Tools has a way to make patch names and everything for it and Spitfire has the whole UACC thing. Why does Pro Tools not allow program changes to virtual instruments and only allows with external midi devices? This doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing? Any solutions or advice? Can this change as it would solve a lot of problems if it caught on?
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:45 PM
Courtlaw Courtlaw is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

I'd like to know as well
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:49 PM
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Seafoam_Green Seafoam_Green is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

I cannot understand why you (as an existing Cubase "composer") would even consider using Pro Tools with it's primitive MIDI features
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Old 12-13-2016, 05:13 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seafoam_Green View Post
I cannot understand why you (as an existing Cubase "composer") would even consider using Pro Tools with it's primitive MIDI features
Yup.
Be aware that not all vi's expose their patch change abilities to a daw. Anything running in Kontakt 5 for example is just one. Actually I don't think any NI vi exposes it's patch change ability to the outside world.
And if anyone is asking about .midnam patch lists - they've not worked in PT for ages.
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Old 12-13-2016, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

One thing you might consider doing is set up a separate track for keyswitching only and send it to whatever instrument you want the keyswitch to affect. So, you have one MIDI track playing the instrument and a separate one just for keyswitches to change articulations for that instrument. That way, when you want to look at or print a score, you can just make the keyswitch tracks inactive.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:14 AM
Courtlaw Courtlaw is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
One thing you might consider doing is set up a separate track for keyswitching only and send it to whatever instrument you want the keyswitch to affect. So, you have one MIDI track playing the instrument and a separate one just for keyswitches to change articulations for that instrument. That way, when you want to look at or print a score, you can just make the keyswitch tracks inactive.
Good tip!
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:40 AM
Bushpig Bushpig is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

Hi all,

I don't know about the original question concerning patch changes (sorry, a bit of a basic MIDI guy here, who actually likes PT MIDI), but I'd like to second what Donald M said, and hope that it adds to the conversation if/when the main question is resolved.

I like to use a set of MIDI tracks for the notes being programmed, and then various other individual tracks for controller info etc. I set up a separate track (for any given instrument) for things like sustain pedal, or pitch wheel info and solo safe these, then forget about them, except when it comes to editing this info, in which case they are clearly displayed at all times (no bloody switching "lanes" to see them and then back to note view all the time). If it's a fully recorded performance, it's relatively painless to copy out and paste all these onto their own track afterwards. Even with the ability to show the lanes beneath each track, I prefer to have all types of controller information on it's own track, as I still find it makes overall editing SO much easier.

Hope that helps going forward.

Regards.

Steve Bush
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:40 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushpig View Post
Hi all,

I don't know about the original question concerning patch changes (sorry, a bit of a basic MIDI guy here, who actually likes PT MIDI), but I'd like to second what Donald M said, and hope that it adds to the conversation if/when the main question is resolved.

I like to use a set of MIDI tracks for the notes being programmed, and then various other individual tracks for controller info etc. I set up a separate track (for any given instrument) for things like sustain pedal, or pitch wheel info and solo safe these, then forget about them, except when it comes to editing this info, in which case they are clearly displayed at all times (no bloody switching "lanes" to see them and then back to note view all the time). If it's a fully recorded performance, it's relatively painless to copy out and paste all these onto their own track afterwards. Even with the ability to show the lanes beneath each track, I prefer to have all types of controller information on it's own track, as I still find it makes overall editing SO much easier.

Hope that helps going forward.

Regards.

Steve Bush
The housekeeping with your workflow must be bloody.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:36 PM
Bushpig Bushpig is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

MM,

Quote:
The housekeeping with your workflow must be bloody.
Well, it's a bit six and one half dozen TBH. It just sort of evolved to be like this. Example: As I'm a bit of a key command shortcut maniac, using Cntrl, Apple and <- or -> arrow to flip a track view up and down the list is great, but on a Midi track, flipping down and back up the list from "Clips" down to "Sustain" is a grand total of 14 clicks each way. Since I like to have a handful of separate (and grouped) tracks prepared for each instrument for arrangement purposes (Intro, Verse, Chorus etc), if I display one or more controller lanes for each one, the screen layout ergonomics of it can get a bit unwieldy to look at and navigate. I found that having a separate track used for controller info, means I can have all the note information bunched together, and see the controller stuff in one strip right above. I often just minimise these controller tracks when I'm not editing that info, and just get left with a nice clear chunk of screen with the most used data right there in front of me. See my screenshot (you might need to zoom it in a bit).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohv52ki92p...ayout.jpg?dl=0

Also, if I'm recording an in-experienced artist (who's playing say, Piano) and we're dropping in on midi tracks, the overlaps of things like can sustain can get very unwieldy when the silly little toe-rag (bless) leaves his bloody foot on the sustain pedal before or after the drop, so with a bit of school teacher-like coaching during the overdub, afterwards I can drop all the sustain info onto my master sustain track, and it's then MUCH easier to fix, rather than scooting through 14 clicks each way on multiple tracks, while simultaeneously editing dodgy notes lengths combined with errant sustain events etc.

It's just the way I've found to make life a bit easier overall. Either way, you have to keep your wits about you to avoid making major snafu's.

Cheers.

Steve Bush
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2017, 05:37 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools, Virtual Instruments and Program Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushpig View Post
MM,

It's just the way I've found to make life a bit easier overall. Either way, you have to keep your wits about you to avoid making major snafu's.

Cheers.

Steve Bush
Thanks for the explanation. Keeping my wits about me isn't too bad if I'm working alone but with someone else in the room I sometimes get distracted mainly because I get worried about them mucking about with stuff they shouldn't.

I do like the idea of splitting out MIDI controller data which is like splitting out MIDI'ed drums to separate tracks (snare, kick, etc.).
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