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  #1  
Old 05-26-2020, 07:01 AM
Gregor B. Gregor B. is offline
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Default Satellite Recorder: Playback jumps when punching in / out of record

Dear All,

I am trying to get an external satellite recorder to run as smoothly as possible.
Two things should be achieved:
1. perfect sync on record tracks (beep at 09:59:58:00 needs to sit in place with sample precision)
2. playback should sound as smooth as possible on record tracks when toggling in and out of input mode as well as punching in and out of record (in pec)

Ever since "blue mode" ("auto low latency off" on mixer tracks) was introduced, both conditions could easily be met when mixing in the box and recording stems and print master on the same Pro Tools system.

However with a separate player / recorder setup via satellite, it gets a bit more complicated.

My setup:
- Player: PT HDX Ultimate 2019.10.0 with HD Madi Digilink
- MADI Router D.O.TEC M. 1k2
- Recorder: PT Native Ultimate 2019.10.0 with HD Madi Digilink
- no plugins whatsoever used in recorder session, overall system delay on recorder is 16 samples
- blue mode enabled on all recorder tracks (ctrl.+cmd. click on track in mix window)
- delay compensation is generally switched on (options - delay comp.)
- both "compensate for input delays after record pass" as well as "compensate for output delays after record pass" are enabled (IO setup)

With this setup I achieve condition 1. All recorded material (stems and print master) is in sync, beep sits in place with sample precision.
However, condition 2 is not met: Playback jumps drastically (roughly 2000 samples) whenever toggling in and out of "input" or punching in and out of record (when monitoring pec, "input" disabled).

This seems to be due to the way satellite syncs multiple machines: All machines will output audio in sync. Thus, if one of these outputs is used as an input and subsequently recorded on one of the other satellite machines, the latency between the machines (eg the MADI router and or others) will become apparent and cause the playback on that machine to jump with every punch or toggle.

Am I missing anything here?
Since external recorders are a widespread solution for large post projects, I would be surprised if mixers put up with these playbacks jumps. It almost defeats the purpose of monitoring in pec mode to ensure that punches are clean (no pops / artefacts), since the quality of the punches cannot be determined like this.
Is there any approach to achieve better playback sync?

Something I am a bit confused by: When I turn off delay compensation on my recorder, any material is recorded delayed by 81 samples. So this seems to be the actual latency between both machines (assumption). Yet, the playback jumps more like 2000 samples when punching in / out of record. When setting 2000 as a user offset on all rec tracks, I get somewhat better results. With better I mean that when the material is music, the beat will be pretty much steady and smooth, no speeding up and slowing down effect like before. But the punches will still be artefacty, cause pops, sometimes even hissing sounds - always for the playback that is, the record is always clean.

On the other hand, if I record everything in the box on one machine I don`t get any of these artefacts, meaning Pro Tools is able to smootly playback punches as long as delay compensation is setup correctly.
Taking this thought further, I would need to find the accurate user offset and perhaps get better results, always knowing that I won`t be in sync to picture anymore (at least not on both machines, since I then forced my recorder to be roughly 2000 samples late). Seems like the lesser evil for me though.

Any pointers or thoughts would be much appreciated!

Best, Gregor
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2020, 01:35 AM
Gregor B. Gregor B. is offline
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Default Re: Satellite Recorder: Playback jumps when punching in / out of record

Let me just wrap my awfully long post into a one-liner:

Has anyone successfully setup a satellite recorder in a way that it plays back smoothly when punching in and out of record?

All the best!
Gregor
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2020, 02:55 PM
kcfroines kcfroines is offline
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Default Re: Satellite Recorder: Playback jumps when punching in / out of record

I've used a bunch of recorders in satellite, never had any issues.

Don't enable delay compensation on the recorder. Some amount of delay on the printed stems is fine. If you're getting a TON of delay though something is wrong.

I think your issue is going to be because of HD native on the recorder machine. I've never heard of anyone else using HDN on the recorder. Even the places with all HD Native playback machines had HDX cards on the recorders.
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:58 PM
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TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
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Default Re: Satellite Recorder: Playback jumps when punching in / out of record

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcfroines View Post
I think your issue is going to be because of HD native on the recorder machine. I've never heard of anyone else using HDN on the recorder. Even the places with all HD Native playback machines had HDX cards on the recorders.
Adding to that, an HD SYNC is always used, with and HDX card.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:27 AM
Gregor B. Gregor B. is offline
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Default Re: Satellite Recorder: Playback jumps when punching in / out of record

Ah perfect. That makes sense!
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.

Best,
Gregor
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