Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Live Sound > VENUE Live Sound Systems

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:41 AM
ThomasPMusic ThomasPMusic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 189
Default Digisnake for install

Wondering if everyone is still using 2 sets (primary and backup) for Venue installs. I understand for touring, but for fixed install, wondering if it's necessary to do main AND backup cables. I'll have VSD2001 cable going thru conduit. I've never had a fixed install Venue switch cables during a show, except when I disconnect primary link during training to show how it switches.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:35 AM
Scott Fahy Scott Fahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 400
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Always better to have what you don't need then not have what you do. And yes you can quote me....:)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-14-2013, 09:49 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 35,405
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fahy View Post
Always better to have what you don't need then not have what you do. And yes you can quote me....:)
I often use that exact phrase. Also, there's nothing wrong with having a spare. You never know when someone will show up and insist on setting another console up
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:36 AM
digidesigner digidesigner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: World
Posts: 2,191
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
I often use that exact phrase. Also, there's nothing wrong with having a spare. You never know when someone will show up and insist on setting another console up
Or more importantly, when someone needs to run TWO Stage racks for 96 inputs. I would set up 8 cables for install :)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:03 PM
eshop eshop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Here is an alternate snake I have made using 2 x CAT6 F/UTP for one of our touring Profiles. It has also been tested on a theater's installed CAT5e lines as well.....

Hit me up if you'd like more info.

Caveat: AVID does not qualify or condone it's use, I use @ my own risk.



Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:03 AM
digidesigner digidesigner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: World
Posts: 2,191
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by eshop View Post
Here is an alternate snake I have made using 2 x CAT6 F/UTP for one of our touring Profiles. It has also been tested on a theater's installed CAT5e lines as well.....

Hit me up if you'd like more info.

Caveat: AVID does not qualify or condone it's use, I use @ my own risk.



Looking nice and as if it was made by the manufacturer! Tell us more!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-19-2013, 04:42 PM
eshop eshop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by digidesigner View Post
Looking nice and as if it was made by the manufacturer! Tell us more!
The 'secret sauce' is behind the metalwork, however I can talk about the cable in more detail.

up to 50' - Any standard CAT5e or CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair UTP or STP, solid BC or stranded, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT5e or CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

50' to 200' - Any standard CAT5e or CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair UTP or STP, solid BC, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT5e or CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

200' to 300' - Any standard CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair F/UTP or STP or S/FTP, solid BC, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

Max TP cable distance between converters is 300'. The sweetspot max length is 250' concerning margins for s/n, x-talk, and attenuation. In contrast with ethernet for example, it is worth mentioning that 100m(328') horizontal network segments have a specified max (non-zero) bit-error-rate (BER). Ordinary 10/100/1000 Mbit networks can deal with this non-zero BER, whereas the Venue snake circuit (serial data link) will not tolerate BER's of a certain level above zero (ideally should be zero). This is handled by the CRC circuit in the Venue snake.

All category cable should have a pair lay and pair termination equal to TIA/EIA 568B.

Coax jumper cables:
Belden 1505A or equivalent, 36 inches max.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:04 PM
digidesigner digidesigner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: World
Posts: 2,191
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by eshop View Post
The 'secret sauce' is behind the metalwork, however I can talk about the cable in more detail.

up to 50' - Any standard CAT5e or CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair UTP or STP, solid BC or stranded, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT5e or CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

50' to 200' - Any standard CAT5e or CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair UTP or STP, solid BC, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT5e or CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

200' to 300' - Any standard CAT6 cable construction, 4 pair F/UTP or STP or S/FTP, solid BC, 24AWG or 23AWG, CAT6 compliant jacks and plugs.

Max TP cable distance between converters is 300'. The sweetspot max length is 250' concerning margins for s/n, x-talk, and attenuation. In contrast with ethernet for example, it is worth mentioning that 100m(328') horizontal network segments have a specified max (non-zero) bit-error-rate (BER). Ordinary 10/100/1000 Mbit networks can deal with this non-zero BER, whereas the Venue snake circuit (serial data link) will not tolerate BER's of a certain level above zero (ideally should be zero). This is handled by the CRC circuit in the Venue snake.

All category cable should have a pair lay and pair termination equal to TIA/EIA 568B.

Coax jumper cables:
Belden 1505A or equivalent, 36 inches max.
Thanks for the info! Would be nice to know what happens behind the metalwork
But considering that the max snake length of such system isn't that long and Cat6 cable must be used, what is that makes it worthwhile for you to make and use this conversion?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-20-2013, 11:07 AM
eshop eshop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Quote:
Originally Posted by digidesigner View Post
Thanks for the info! Would be nice to know what happens behind the metalwork
But considering that the max snake length of such system isn't that long and Cat6 cable must be used, what is that makes it worthwhile for you to make and use this conversion?
Good, Fast, Cheap.....pick two

Good - high quality, high build quality, solid design
Fast - high performance, (may have wide bandwidth and high speed, resulting in longer cable length)
Cheap - low cost in hardware, cable and deployment (may have limited bandwidth and speed, resulting in shorter cable length)

No doubt, coax and fiber are the only way to go if you need Good and Fast. With coax RG6 the spec is out to 500', and with using the approved and qualified RME MADI media converters many thousands of feet are possible.

As an alternate snake, CAT5e/6 opens some interesting options for me. It falls under Good and Cheap, competitive pricewise with same length coax (some coax). For touring or installation, it gives advantages in less cable (weight & diameter or conduit fill respectively). Additionally, the CAT5e/6 cable can be deployed for other duties as well. How about 4 pairs of AES3 in one shielded CAT5e? How about analog audio along with component video in one CAT5e? If your shop is into multi-purposing cable, this is the way to go.

Here is a short list of CAT5e/6 uses:

M**as/KT AES50/51
S****craft Vi prop. MADI over CAT5e
D***co prop. MADI over CAT5e
Y***ha CL Dante
Link DigiLink
Venue Stage 48 (AVB)
Venue over CAT5e/6 (not approved)
Ethersound
Cobranet
Dante
AVB - many manufacturers on board
BvNet
10/100/1000/10G ethernet (10G CAT6 55m max)
VoIP

AES3
AES3id with baluns
SPDIF with baluns
composite and component video with baluns
SDI
HDMI w/ active electronics
Word Clock with baluns
RS485
DMX
MIDI
CAN Bus
Balanced Analog audio (mic & line level) 4 channel snake
RTS balanced comm
GPIO signaling

and the list goes on.......
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:10 PM
eshop eshop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 22
Default Re: Digisnake for install

Adding to the above list of 'uses for CAT5e/6 cables'.....

From Prolight+Sound 2013, RME launches new product with media conversion to and from twisted pair on RJ45's. MADI, AES3, and ADAT over twisted pair....

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_index_new_products.php


Also, my converters shown above are currently running on 2 x 300' of LK CAT6 UTP. The LK cable is outstanding, if you need it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Digisnake 12' DB25 DIY theboasta General Discussion 1 10-14-2012 09:38 PM
DigiSnake over Fiber dlev13 VENUE Live Sound Systems 3 05-11-2011 04:56 PM
Digisnake questions theaero Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 6 08-27-2009 04:26 AM
Digisnake ?? cachemira Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 6 03-22-2006 12:29 PM
What is the best Digisnake for me? Stacyodell Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 2 02-23-2006 03:26 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com