What is the status on Music in the LFE in theatrical mixes

[Cheesehead]

Uuurgh! I didn't like reading that thread, it made my head hurt.

From my limited research these films seem to have the original mix on the Blu-rays:
Megamind, 30 Day's of Night, Casino Royale, The Hobbit, Road to Perdition, Master & Commander, Mad Max Fury Road and No Country For Old Men.

Although... I watched Mad Max on Dvd and it was ear blisteringly loud, maybe the Blu Ray is different. The others I've checked and they do seem to be at Theatrical level judging by the dialogue levels.

I'm sure there are many more lower & high budget films that didn't have a near-field requirement on the deliverables & retain the original mix.

[mostlypost]

Just a quick reply to the original question. Not addressing post-mix, non-theatrical format prep or release.

Most score mixing at this point includes use of the LFE for subharmonics, size and impact of percussion, synths etc. where musically appropriate. This can be generated by a scoring or music mixer in a number of ways including the same subharmonic generators and plug-ins used by FX for explosions, gun shots, jail doors, etc. Sometimes it's purely musical. Sometimes it's used to generate reality such as dance venues, booming car-byes etc. (one of the best examples was the "Social Network" club balcony with a massive, pumping dance floor and a beautiful hole for dialog). Generally more attention is paid to the tonality of the effect because there is the pitch of bass notes, pads etc. to be dealt with and you're not just blowing stuff up.

Often that is delivered to the stage from music editorial and mixed to taste by the rerecording mixer. Sometimes for source music or needle-drops it is generated on the stage by the rerecording mixer.

Main music tracks (LCR etc) are EQed and mixed full-range to their assigned spaces (except, of course, when futzed) and bass management, if any, is left to the presenting venue. I have never seen music low end "managed" by filtering the mains and sending lower frequencies to the LFE, only enhanced by addition of the LFE.

In a home theater environment, your sub might certainly be more active with music due to management but there is also likely music material intentionally placed there from the original mix.

Just my experience.

Regards,

Robert Schaper

[houser]

Hi Mostlypost,

Thanx for that. I should perhaps mention that I have mixed for all formats for 25 years or so, so I am well aware of what you suggest in best practices over the years.

As I am semi-retired what I have however not been aware of is how music mixed into the LFE with "bass-managed" tech has taken hold in both hi-end "near field" mixes for BD as well as some theatrical mixes
released as is for BD. I stumbled onto this in tuning some Home Cinemas and the problems this can create in such an environment.

The short is that a discrete theatrical mix does not create any problems in a serious Home Cinema with no bass-management in the listening chain setup, a "near field mix" with bass managed music in a bass-managed listening set up can and does.

Thanx again!

[Bob Olhsson]

I and many others have found that "bass managed" monitoring is a really bad idea translation-wise.

[houser]

Thanx Bob,

Appreciate your time. Bass-managed monitoring is as you probably know very common in Home Cinema environments. The right kit, properly tuned can be a pretty good way to get the most out of smaller screen channel speakers and a separate subwoofer. My beef in this thread has been with dual bassmanagement and dual crossovers that then become a fact to deal with.
I have to admit that I have pretty much missed this change of focus in film mixing and mastering.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I and many others have found that "bass managed" monitoring is a really bad idea translation-wise.

[Bob Olhsson]

Bass managed listening, obviously is very common however monitoring dictates one's final balance and bass managed speakers are far too much of a moving target no matter how well "tuned" they are. Mixes done using non-bass managed monitors sound better on a wider variety of bass managed systems than mixes done using bass management. Switching a full range system between bass managed and non- bass managed is a real jaw-dropper balance-wise.

[houser]

I would agree. IMHO, therefore the theatrical mix should not be tweaked or replaced with bass-managed "near-field mixes" as a properly calibrated Home Cinema with no bass management can sound spectacular with the theatrical mix and a discrete LFE channel. This has been my experience over the last few months. Ah well. There it is.

[Bob Olhsson]

I think it should be tweaked for the smaller screens but never with bass-managed monitoring.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Bass managed listening, obviously is very common however monitoring dictates one's final balance and bass managed speakers are far too much of a moving target no matter how well "tuned" they are. Mixes done using non-bass managed monitors sound better on a wider variety of bass managed systems than mixes done using bass management. Switching a full range system between bass managed and non- bass managed is a real jaw-dropper balance-wise.

What if you're mixing in a smaller but calibrated room without full-range monitors?

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by seanmccoy

What if you're mixing in a smaller but calibrated room without full-range monitors?

You might want to re-think doing that.