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  #11  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:44 AM
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dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Cheesehead ( Martin),
Yes the Qsys 250 is discontinued. The Qsys 500 is the unit now.
They are basically the same with even more power.
It all depends what you want to do. The Trinov is not the unit I would use under any circumstances here. I have my strong reasons but will not get into it here in the DUC. I think Franks method would work best for what you are doing especially with the price point and the customization.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2016, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

I think the new Core 110f from QSC will do monitor control and b-chain. You need a few of the expansion chassis to go with it.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2016, 06:58 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Hi,

I've just been through the same investigation. I'm not a mix stage but I wanted a controller that would expand to mini-atmos, that wouldn't be as expensive as QSYS and that I could control with a remote (iPad or hardware) to recall presets, mute channels etc. etc.

I ended up with the Xilica Neutrino. It comes in various setups. I have the 1616ND. It has 16 analogue I/O, 8xAES and Dante. You can freely design your own schematics and freely define the iPad/iphone/Android surface.
It sounds excellent and is easy to config.

And the best thing is I can use it as a stand-alone PT-interface via Dante virtual sound card which saves me tons of weight when I need to move my kit to an edit room abroad which happens once in a while. I have 16 I/O with Dante on a single CAT6 cable from my MacPro. And you can defeat the fan. All that in a one unit box. In that sense it becomes a 16 I/O PT interface when you have the 29$ DVS installed on your DAW computer. Before I needed my 8x8x8, BlueSky BMC, Yamaha 01v96 when on the road. Now the Neutrino replaces all of that gear and I can go beyond 7.1 and it saves me at least about 15-20kg of boxes when traveling. I just need my Mac, the Neutrino and a CAT6 cable instead.

Support is very responsive. I'm very happy and it's significantly less expensive than something like QSYS. But it's not as modular. So if you need it to be further expandable or you need more than 16 analog outs for your speakers then I'd look at QSYS. It's very good too. The market for these things is quite small. There's the QSYS, Peavey Media Matrix, Soundweb. Almost any other so called controllers end at 7.1 or are simple volume knobs.

Frank.



Frank.
Frank, thanks for sharing a real world experience with the Xilica. It is a very intriguing option. I never considered that the DVS would work with PT but it makes sense.

Sorry if I missed it but do you use a physical remote or an iPad?
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2016, 08:22 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Frank, thanks for sharing a real world experience with the Xilica. It is a very intriguing option. I never considered that the DVS would work with PT but it makes sense.

Sorry if I missed it but do you use a physical remote or an iPad?
I use my iPad. They do offer physical remotes like wall mount panels to recall presets or set volume but those are more for installations (venues, conference rooms etc. etc.) but they are too limited for the things we need them for. The touch panels are essentially android tablets in housings.

The free iOS app runs on iPhone and iPad and are fully customizable from the config software. I made a surface with single speaker mutes, DIM, mute all, mute front, mute surrounds, LipSync Delay setting and bypass, different SPL calibrations and output meters on one page.

The control software for the mac where you design your DSP signal flow also has a Dante controller built in so you actually don't need the Audinate dante controller program. You can patch all your dante devices from the same program.

The Canadian website is bit confusing. Better info here:

http://www.xilica.com.au/products/ne...er-options.php


frank.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 04-26-2016 at 08:37 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2016, 02:51 AM
houser houser is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
The Trinov is not the unit I would use under any circumstances here. I have my strong reasons but will not get into it here in the DUC.
Any chance of any one major point why? Just curious, as it seems an impressive unit too...
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  #16  
Old 04-27-2016, 03:05 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

I could be wrong but afaik the Trinov has 12 analogue outs on the biggest box.

frank.
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2016, 05:53 PM
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Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

I would look at Crispin Herrod-Taylor and Crookwood.

http://crookwood.com/audio-monitoring/

Crispin, among other things, was one of the original designers at Focusrite (the console) before moving on to SSL, then becoming his own company. They specialize in mastering consoles but also make monitoring consoles. We had him design and build multiple systems for our 9-room facility in 2004, all custom configurable and expandle as you need, all the way to Atmos. It's brilliantly designed and he can add just about any option you can think of.

Reasonably priced, too. Look him up.
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  #18  
Old 04-28-2016, 02:08 AM
houser houser is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
I could be wrong but afaik the Trinov has 12 analogue outs on the biggest box.

frank.

From the Trinnov site:
"Above 16 channels, the Trinnov Audio Core section can be replaced by a RME HDSP MADI interface that handles up to 64 digital I/Os."
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  #19  
Old 04-28-2016, 06:02 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Hi again,

Thanks for the wealth of information guys, I wasn't aware of some of these options and the possibilities they open up. Its taken me a while to do the research on them.
The Dante virtual sound card alone is a fantastic find!

It looks like I will go with the Neutrino 1616ND as recommended by Frank.
Their Uno looked quite promising too but I like the configurability of the Neutrino. Also Xilica support are very helpful at explaining what is quite a confusing and new area for me (network audio).

Can I ask a couple more questions Frank please?

Do you run any Eucon enabled gear on the same network as the Neutrino when you're using it as a standalone interface?
If so do you get any problems?

What kind of latency do you get when using it as an interface?

Can you gen lock it in any way, or does that just not happen with Dante?

Many thanks

Martin
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  #20  
Old 04-28-2016, 06:37 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: 7.1 Monitoring Controller & Beyond?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
Hi again,

Thanks for the wealth of information guys, I wasn't aware of some of these options and the possibilities they open up. Its taken me a while to do the research on them.
The Dante virtual sound card alone is a fantastic find!

It looks like I will go with the Neutrino 1616ND as recommended by Frank.
Their Uno looked quite promising too but I like the configurability of the Neutrino. Also Xilica support are very helpful at explaining what is quite a confusing and new area for me (network audio).

Can I ask a couple more questions Frank please?

Do you run any Eucon enabled gear on the same network as the Neutrino when you're using it as a standalone interface?
If so do you get any problems?

What kind of latency do you get when using it as an interface?

Can you gen lock it in any way, or does that just not happen with Dante?

Many thanks

Martin
Hi Martin,

you've hit a point that's a bit of a dilemma with DVS and PT in general. When using DVS PT is essentially using core audio in native mode to "talk" to the DVS driver so just like any other physical core audio interface would work. The only way to run PT fully genlocked is with AVID hardware and a Sync HD. As long as AVID doesn't offer a DanteBridge and you can not use the HD engine to interface to a Dante-card there won't be full gen-locking. This is a problem all non-AVID interfaces have in common (or at least the ones that do not have a DigiLink interface).

The Neutrino has SRCs on the AES ins so there's no need to WC it and it doesn't have a WC input in the first place.

When using Dante the clocking is done over the Dante "signal".

In my case when I'm working in 7.1 I use my 8x8x8 via AES and I'm fully genlocked. The DVS at the moment is mainly for when I'm on the road or when I want to patch one of my team member's rig to my room for approval sessions. Saves a lot of bouncing.

With regards to Eucon: I have Eucon on a separate port with fixed IP to avoing various issues. Mainly the fact that we have 5 or 6 artists on our network with 5 PT rigs and they constantly grabbed other people's controllers in the morning.
Dante was super-easy. I simply plugged it to the same intranet (DHCP managed) with our rigs and it just worked. So dropouts, hickups etc. but I think that depends on individual setup.

The DVS has a fixed latency of 5ms. When using dante-cards you can get as low as 1ms. The latency is a non-issue in my case since I do not record or create live HP feeds that need to be zero latency.

I'd recommend test-driving the unit to fully understand things.

Maybe you don't need the full blown 1616ND. It really depends on your setup. I wanted AES, DANTE and 16 outs so that was the box I went with. Ceiling channels are a project for later this year.

Keep in mind that if you need more than 8 outs and you want to stay 100% genlocked, the only proper way to do this is with an interface that has a Digilink connector (Focusrite Red etc. etc.). As soon as you use the core audio engine your rig won't be near-sample-accurate locked to video sync, AFAIK.

So that's something to consider. Another important thing about the Neutrino: The AES out is always a mirrored out of the analogue outs 1-8. You can not have 16 analogue outs plus another 8 digital with separate signal. AES out 1-8 will always contain the same audio as the analogue outs 1-8. If you have a stack of AVID interfaces and you want to use those the Neutrino isn't for you because it only has 8 AES I/O unless of course you're OK with using analog wiring into the Neutrino.

In that regard the Xilica boxes are a bit of a compromise compared to something like QSYS when ultimate expandability is a concern. But considering the huge price-difference I was fine with that. If worse comes to worse you can always add another box.

Here's a very good PDF that explains how clocking and latency works over Dante:

https://www.audinate.com/sites/defau...5-audinate.pdf




Frank.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 04-28-2016 at 07:24 AM.
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