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  #1  
Old 07-08-2002, 05:31 PM
davidp158 davidp158 is offline
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Default Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

I'm curious to know of music applications that do NOT ship with printed manuals. While I realize that the cost of printing does add to the end cost that users pay, I suspect most users would prefer to have a printed manual. Digidesign claims the cost of a manual would add $35 to the cost of the every 001. I do graphics for my day gig, and think otherwise.

What applications do you use, and which, if any, do not ship with a printed manual?

I fondly remember my first version of OpCode's Vision that shipped in a hard bound loose leaf binder (for easy updates) in a hard bound sleeve. Ah, the good ol' days...

dave patterson / knobville
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2002, 06:07 PM
Kickin.da.speaker Kickin.da.speaker is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

Whatever the cost of a manual, I believe it's better to sell it separately from the software. That way, if you don't need it, you don't have to pay for it and you save a few trees, and you can read your pdf version. Or you can put the pdf on a CD and go to kinkos have it printed if you want, or print only the pages you need yourself, or whatever. If you need it, you pay for it but don't force all the other users to pay for it.

I know I would buy a paper manual anyway, but wouldn't mind paying an extra $35 for it.

Oh and BTW, I know: my mac didn't come with a paper manual! Seriously, that surprised me! But I think it's better like that. Less waste of paper!
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  #3  
Old 07-08-2002, 06:13 PM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

I have to agree with David, it's such a waste of paper. $35 sounds pretty cheap to me, considering printing, binding, packing and shipping a large manual. Then they have to re-do that every time there's a new version, and have to trash (er.. recycle) whatever old manuals are still around.

I think the PDFs are great, and can be accessed right from the help menu. When there's an update, I just print out the 'what's new' PDF, but really only look at it for about a week or so. I never reference my hard copy anymore, not even sure where it is, so I'm glad they're conserving a bit and making it optional. BTW, protools/001 is MUCH cheaper now than when I bought it and came with a manual, so it seems that it may be a solution to keep the cost more competitive.

Way back in the day when I used cakewalk on PC, they would send a new manual with every version of software - absolutely ridiculous, and so wasteful. Another reason I'm glad I switched apps and platforms [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2002, 06:19 PM
davidp158 davidp158 is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

You raise a very good point about the environmental issue that I hadn't considered.

While I also use the PDF manual a lot, I don't think $35 is a realistic price for the PTLE manual. Maybe I'm the exception, but I do read manuals and don't like being restricted to a PDF version or paying $35 for a manual that should ship with an $800 product.

dave patterson / knobville
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2002, 11:35 PM
Kickin.da.speaker Kickin.da.speaker is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

Maybe they should raise the price of PTLE+Digi to $835 and ship it with a manual, and offer a $35 discount to users who buy it without manual.

Does that make sense? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2002, 11:56 PM
NannerPuddin' NannerPuddin' is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

My 001 came with a manual. Is that not the case now? That's a load of crap. I like the small bound manual that they sent me. It is very useful. PDF's are nice, but, I prefer the old fashioned way. And guess what? It won't add $35 to YOUR cost of the 001, it would just add $35 to the bottom line of AVID by leaving it out. The 001 units have not gone down in dealer cost since the manuals stopped shipping(if indeed that is the case).

NP.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2002, 12:00 AM
Slim Shady Slim Shady is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

Quote:
The 001 units have not gone down in dealer cost since the manuals stopped shipping
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes they have, quite significantly. They stopped including manuals well over a year ago - at least that's when the posts like this one started showing up. Nowadays You can get an 001 system for $799 (no manual). When I got mine with a manual, they were more like $1000.
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2002, 01:47 AM
NannerPuddin' NannerPuddin' is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

Slim,

DEALER cost. Dealer cost has not gone down. You did not pay DEALER cost. The people that sold you the unit have been paying the same regardless of manual or not. Dealer cost (what Guitar center, Sweetwater, etc paid) is not the same as Slim Shady or Nanner Puddin' cost(what we paid). Not trying to be a jerk, but I am merely trying to illustrate that this move was intended to increase the bottom line of Digi, not to decrease the cost to the consumer, or save the rainforest; or whales, for that matter.

I was not aware until this post that the manual had been 86'ed. This stinks.

NP.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2002, 07:04 AM
Mightypudge Mightypudge is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

Apparently MOTU is not very environmentally friendly.

Digital Performer 2.7 came with SEVERAL manuals, including the gigantic Digital Performer user guide at 900+ pages. When I upgraded (for free, mind you) to DP 3.0 they sent me another 900+ page user guide.

I didn't appreciate having to pay $35 for a printed Pro Tools manual. But I can understand their reasoning.
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  #10  
Old 07-09-2002, 10:44 AM
davidp158 davidp158 is offline
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Default Re: Music apps WITHOUT printed manuals?

I applaud your concerns about being "envirnonmentally friendly", but I still prefer to have manuals with my software, as would most first time users of MOTU products. Software manuals are not like the reams of junk mail I throw in my recylce bin. I use them and expect them when I pay $700+ for a product. Of course, you can recycle your old manuals, too.

Your post illustrates that MOTU deems it worth while to include their manuals for new and upgrade users. The price of the PTLE manual is quite high, and its all about more profit for Digidesign. Don't be fooled when they claim they're tring to keep your cost down.

dave patterson / knobville

Quote:
Originally posted by Mightypudge:
Apparently MOTU is not very environmentally friendly.

Digital Performer 2.7 came with SEVERAL manuals, including the gigantic Digital Performer user guide at 900+ pages. When I upgraded (for free, mind you) to DP 3.0 they sent me another 900+ page user guide.

I didn't appreciate having to pay $35 for a printed Pro Tools manual. But I can understand their reasoning.
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